JamesRich Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I figured I'd ask before I start changing parts. On the way back from my last hunting trip the clutch started acting up. When I got home I checked and the fluid was empty. I filled it up and bled it but didn't drive it since I found out my alignment shims had fallen out. Now 3 weeks later I find time to get it to the alignment shop and the clutch doesn't work. I bled it like 10 damn times and keep getting air out of the damper. After bleeding I have a good pedal, come back 20 minutes later no pedal! I'm about to take a hammer to it! I have no obvious leaks but something had to leak for it to loose the fluid. Could the damper let air back in? It looks to me like the damper is a closed system but every time I crack the bleeder air comes out. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 When I got home I checked and the fluid was empty. Yep, you have a leak. Logical place to look is the slave cylinder (or lines to it) where a leak will just drip off, and any air getting sucked in travels up the line and collects in the damper... Do you have rust?? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Do I have rust where? On the lines? Nothing is rusted under the truck and nothing had fluid dripping off of it. The fluid didnt look cloudy or nasty when I bled it either. now it's holding it's fluid but not the pedal. I guess I'll just change both the master and the slave cylinders and should be done with that problem. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I am thinkig the same thing Precise is thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krmiller07 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) James, Before you jump in and change the Master Cylinder and slave. By pass the damper on the fire wall. You'll have to find the right 'an' fitting, but it can be done. A similar thing happened to mine a year ago. Only my pedal dropped all the way to floor while driving on the interstate. I had it flatbeded home and went out and bought a slave cylinder. Except when I got done installing it, I couldn't get all the air out of the line. I went trough nearly 1 1/2 quarts of brake fluid before I gave up. I took to the shop and the first thing they check was this pain in the a** damper. A replacement from Nissan was nearly $300.00! I looked at it, and said by pass it. It was really a creature comfort thing Nissan installed to prevent vibrations being transmitted through the clutch pedal. I haven't noticed any vibrations with out it! Clutch works fine now. Keith km@frozenrotors.com Edited February 1, 2011 by krmiller07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The damper is probably for people who suck at stick not jerk the truck around lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 I have heard other comments about bypassing the damper. This is the first vehicle I ever had that has a clutch damper and I've been driving sticks since I started driving so I don't need it. It is a convenient place for a bleeder though, as clutch systems are usually a pain to bleed. The slave and master are both under $20 on rock auto so I will probably change them just to make sure. So how did you bypass yours? Use the line fitting off of the damper on a union? Precise and Alkorahil, y'all think the slave leaks down and then draws air in? I looked it over for leaks but didn't try pulling the boot back to see if there was fluid under it. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krmiller07 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I have heard other comments about bypassing the damper. This is the first vehicle I ever had that has a clutch damper and I've been driving sticks since I started driving so I don't need it. It is a convenient place for a bleeder though, as clutch systems are usually a pain to bleed. The slave and master are both under $20 on rock auto so I will probably change them just to make sure. So how did you bypass yours? Use the line fitting off of the damper on a union? Precise and Alkorahil, y'all think the slave leaks down and then draws air in? I looked it over for leaks but didn't try pulling the boot back to see if there was fluid under it. James I used a union. I can't remember the size though. I know it's nothing special. The shop that was doing the work tried to tell me it was a 'special' item, and was going to charge me $70.00 for just the fitting. I went to a speed shop and bought it for $3.50, It is made out of aluminum, but brass will work if you can find one in a metric size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Precise and Alkorahil, y'all think the slave leaks down and then draws air in? I looked it over for leaks but didn't try pulling the boot back to see if there was fluid under it. James Something like that. I can't remember if the fluid can run down the fork and drip into the bell housing. It would drain out of the little drain hole center where the tranny and engine bolt together. You aren't new to mechanics, so if you didn't see a leak there might not be one. I'm just throwing logic at the problem from 2000 miles away... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I had the same issue James and it was the slave cylinder. Replaced, bled, and drove it without anymore issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Look for a leak inside. Pull back the carpet where the clutch pin goes through the firewall. It will leak down the inside of the vehicle, and you wll never see it. Carpet padding usually soaks it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 On previous HBs I've owned I've had 2 slave cylinders do that and 3 masters... On WhiteOwl I actually had the bleeder @ the slave fail. Replaced the bleeder, bled the system, been fine since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Look for a leak inside. Pull back the carpet where the clutch pin goes through the firewall. It will leak down the inside of the vehicle, and you will never see it. Carpet padding usually soaks it up. I've seen this happen a few times when I was still working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Look for a leak inside. Pull back the carpet where the clutch pin goes through the firewall. It will leak down the inside of the vehicle, and you wll never see it. Carpet padding usually soaks it up. Exactly my thought after James said he had no visible fluid! James, I've had this exact thing happen on my yota, it was frustrating not being able to figure out where my fluid was going, then one day I was under the dash doing some light wiring and happened to noticed the fluid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) I had the same issue James and it was the slave cylinder. Replaced, bled, and drove it without anymore issues. Thats what I wanted to hear, someone had the same issue and how they fixed it. I love forums! I had already checked the firewall inside, I've encountered that problem before. I'm still going to change both parts, if I ever remember to order them. With the age and mileage of this truck they might be the originals. Also when I bought it, the PO must have lost the cap for the clutch master cylinder and had a plastic bag over it with a rubber band holding it. I replaced the cap from a pick a part but I'm sure some moisture got in there. James Edited February 2, 2011 by JamesRich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krmiller07 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 James...a plastic bag and a rubber band! Now thats "Rich" no pun intended! lol. I would be willing to bet your pay check that moisture got in the system and started corroding the M/C to the point that the seals weren't sealing. Well, like you said. You might as well replace the slave and M/C and get rid of that PIA damper on the firewall. It's just a matter of time until that fails. And that will leave you stranded, or at least without a clutch. Which can make it very difficult to get rolling. I always recommend a COMPLETE fluid flush once a year on the Brake and Clutch. It's safe insurance, easy to do. And will go along ways in preventing premature failure. km@frozenrotrs.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks for the help guys, I finally got it going. I obviously had a leak because it ran out of fluid but neither the slave or master cylinders appeared to be leaking when I replaced them. I had the same problem getting the new parts to work, took for ever to get all the air out. I'm sure this is because of the way the hydraulic line is run. The line comes off the master and goes straight up for around 5" then makes a 90* turn and goes across the firewall and down to the damper. I'm sure air was getting trapped in this loop. If the line went down from the master air in the system would eventually work its way back up through the master cylinder. I didn't have to bypass the damper either, if fact that is where I bleed most of the air out of the system. What I did, since its not my DD, was left it parked and every day when I got home I just cracked the bleeder on the damper and a little air came out. After the third day no more air came out, it had a good pedal and I've been driving it again. I think pumping the hell out of it when bleeding it was foaming up the fluid so I never got all the air out. By letting it gravity bleed without pumping it all the air came out. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So you never found the leak?? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Nothing obvious, I'm sure something was leaking though for it to run out of fluid. My bet would have been the slave because the rubber boot was a little swollen. Dragging through the mud all hunting season and then pressure washing it for 3 hours once I get home could have covered up a small leak. One thing you must know about me, I'm lazy and forgetful! Even though it's 23 years old it doesn't use any oil. So unless I open the hood to work on something I don't check the fluids in between oil changes. If I did I may have noticed it getting low. I know thats not good but unless I put a reminder in my phones calender I won't remember to do anything. I still forgot to check the oil while I was bleeding the clutch. It was still full a few months ago so It should be fine. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 No worries, as long as it is fixed... I have to write everything down too. The oil changes are written on tape on the door jamb but I'm switching a note pad that is kept in the glove box for all the other fluids, etc. 4 cars and 2 motorcycles, I can't remember when I rotated that ones tires or replaced the diff oil... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 do not blead it at the damper. blead it at the master cylinder. I have never touched the damper and have changed both slave and master at different times. If this does not work, THEN bypass the damper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel595 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 damper delete is the next thing i will be doing, i noticed it makes the clutch disengage slower. no damper no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piste Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) FWIW...though I think my problem was a bit different than yours...I chased a clutch hydraulic pressure loss issue for the last three years....chronicled elsewhere in the forum. Never found evidence of where a leak was happening. Replaced master and slave...twice. Also the rubber line out near the slave. All temporary fixes...Replaced the damper and seems to have been the fix...time will tell for sure. Point being...I'll forever be suspect of dampers. Edited February 24, 2011 by piste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 I would have just bypassed the damper first thing but the flared lines screw right into the housing and I'm sure they are some screwy metric size. I didn't feel like driving all over Lafayette and the surrounding towns to never find the correct fittings to bypass it. I even thought about just gutting it and just putting the empty housing back but with my luck it would have leaked. Lately with working 12 hour days 6 day a week and kids baseball and trying to get my garden ready and other yard work I feel like a prisoner in my own life. I don't even have time to read my favorite gun magazine any more. So I definitely didn't want to waste time running around looking for something I was sure wasn't there. Someone could sell quite a few fittings for this if they made some. A small block with the same angles for the lines so nothing would have to be modified or bent. I would buy one. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krw Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Thanks for the help guys, I finally got it going. ... took for ever to get all the air out. I'm sure this is because of the way the hydraulic line is run. The line comes off the master and goes straight up for around 5" then makes a 90* turn and goes across the firewall and down to the damper. I'm sure air was getting trapped in this loop. If the line went down from the master air in the system would eventually work its way back up through the master cylinder. I didn't have to bypass the damper either, if fact that is where I bleed most of the air out of the system. I know this is two months after the fact but might be useful to someone in the future. I had the flex hose to the slave cylinder get spongy during an off road session. A pin hole appeared on the way home.(This was a hard to find part BTW. Don't know why, the truck is *only* 18 years old). The easy way to bleed the system is with a vacuum pump at the slave cylinder bleeder. You can buy a cheap hand operated pump at Harbor Freight and similar places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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