ENGINE IS RUNNING BACKWARDS!

[TrailChaser]

It actually only happens when the engine is cold. I found that by hooking up my wifes car with two sets of jumper cables will start it fine when it's cold.??

 

The way I found out was by hooking up both sets at the same time to increase the charging since both are standard(crap) jumper cables that actually get hot while charging. She has a 120amp alt to it really puts out the juice.

Anyway, I hooked both sets up to charge the battery fast and found that I could now crank the truck everytime.(while cold) So I called my wife out to give me a hand. If she unhooked both of the neg. clamps and I tried to start it no dice... Add one clamp and it was slightly better but not quite.. Add both clamps and bam.. Starts right up.(This wasn't a fluke. We did the little test a few times to confirm)

 

Went and bought a new battery and now it will crank when it's cold, but after warming it up it still won't crank. Drove up a hill and killed it after warming it up. It wouldn't crank off the starter,(brand new battery and turning over fast) but with a slow roll start in second gear bam; starts right up..???? I did this several times and it's starting from a roll start at what seems to be lower RPM's than the starter is cranking out.

 

I'm stumped... Now to go loosen some exhaust bolts before the cat.

Could it be that the cat is clogged and the clog is worst after warming up the system? How would the extra juice from jumper cables have anything to do with this? Also, the idle surge is not happening anymore. I don't know if that had anything to do with this problem, but now it's idling fine even after running well past just warm-up time.

 

I'll keep you all posted and definitely update as I go alone. Keep the suggestions coming.

 

Thanks,

David

[Creekkid]

Hey there, I'm just gonna chime in with my 2 cents....first off, are you sure all timing is 100%? From those vids it seems like it starts kinda hard...shouldn't take so many revolutions to get it running, it's all jumpy and stuff. Some kind of timing problem in the dizzy maybe, not advancing properly. Can you throw a timing light on it and give it a few revs of the motor to confirm timing changes with acceleration.

Really can't imagine the Cat being the source of the problem because you get it started and seems to run ok then. Do you notice any considerable lack of power?

About the Jumper cable thing....are you using quality cable or are they cheapy ones....cause the cheapy one might not carry enough current on their own so doubling up would give a better connection.....when using 1 set do they get really warm when trying to crank over the dead car?

I dunno, it is kinda weird, just throwing some ideas out there.

[Cuong Nguyen]

Are your battery posts and cable ends clean and not crusted over and brittle? How are your fusible links?

[TrailChaser]

All the fuses are good,

 

I'm thinking it's the ignition. If I hold the key in the "start" position(fully turned like I'm cranking it) it seems to start easier/better. I have a hidden starter button which allows me to simply turn on the truck then press that button to start. I've had it set up like this since I started having intermittent problems with the key starting the truck. I just jumped strait into the trigger wire and it's been doing good like that for about 3+yrs.

 

It's just weird that it will push start so easily, but won't start off the starter..I know the starter is spinning it fast enough.

 

Can anyone explain the purpose of the Power Steering Fluid Pressure Switch?

[Dowser]

Power Steering Fluid Pressure Switch? Can't say that I have. Valve..... of course, but switch.... I'm curious to it's purpose as well.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Dowser

[TrailChaser]

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BOR0/S26768.oap?year=1995&make=Nissan&model=Pathfinder&vi=1211993&keyword=power+steering+pressure+switch

 

That's the switch on Oreillys website. I love that they have multiple views of each part. Mine is physically broken. I think the battery slid into it when the strap broke on an offroad trip a couple years ago.

[jj big shoe]

Could carbon build-up cause some sort of pre-ignition scenario? If a cylinder ignites before TDC, couldn't that force it back down the bore and make the engine cycle in reverse?

[Cuong Nguyen]

the pressure switch kicks up the idle so the truck doesn't die and so you still have adequate power to turn the wheels under load.

[TrailChaser]

Thanks Cuong,

That makes sense about the pressure switch. I know it's been broken off for a while and I have never suspected it of giving me any problems.

 

Let's ponder this. What would allow the engine to start up while cold, but keep it starting once it warms up? Could it be some sensor is getting warmed up by the engine and not doing it's job properly? The coolant temp sensor wouldn't cause this would it?

 

The other main confusing point I'd like to touch on again: The truck will push start great even after being warmed up... I have tested this enough that all I need to do it slightly bump it while rolling in 2nd gear and it fires right up with no problems. I don't think it's due to higher RPM's either..?

[87pathy]

the ONLY time ive ever seen this happen 3 occations total

 

was in my old plymoth champ.. carb problems, and hot.

 

1 kia sephia,cam timing way off.

 

toyota pickup, Cam timing way off.

 

are you sure your timging belt didn't jump?

 

never does a pathfinder start that hard.

[TrailChaser]

Now that I bought a brand new battery it will start everytime when the engine is cold, but after it heats up it won't crank up from the starter.(turning over plenty fast enough) If the timing was off it wouldn't start up at all, and if it did, it would run like crap. It's actually running really good with lots of pep. It just won't start if it's warmed up unless I push start it.

 

Time to loosen some exhaust flange bolts and relieve some back pressure.

[GrimGreg]

My wife's VW doesn't like to restart when it is hot either, it will start, but run really rough for a couple minutes unless you rev it to 1500rpm for a min before driving.

[Cuong Nguyen]

The truck will run with the timing belt off a tooth but with not as much power.

[Creekkid]

Why are you not double checking that timing? Engines will still run with totally messed up timing. I think a few people commenting would like to know for sure that Timing is correct.

Everything it does just keeps pointing to a Timing issue. It starts hard, but once started the ECU is probably able to correct it enough to give you the feeling it is OK.

Timing Timing Timing. Check it out before you start ripping your exhaust apart.

[TrailChaser]

The main reason is because I don't have a timing light, or access to one w/out buying it for $40.

 

I guess I can start making some calls to see if anyone has one I can borrow.

[Creekkid]

Beg, borrow or steal one. I'd totally check it out before opening up the exhaust.

[Dowser]

I agree. Ripping into the exhaust is opening up a whole new animal to have to deal with later. Should make sure its not a timing issue first so that way you can scratch it off a list.

[TrailChaser]

Okay Okay, I'll buy a timing light tomorrow. lol

 

After reading a lot of post today on here from people having different starting issues.

 

Now my suspects are:

 

Fusible link(cuongs suggestion from earlier)

CPS(something about it not allowing the injectors pulse)

Inhibitor Switch(I can't remember what I did with it when I did the auto-to-5 speed swap a few yrs ago.)

Low Voltage(I know this is a problem in several areas on our early model pathies)

 

Thanks for everyones help so far, I'm still hunting down the gremlin.

[Creekkid]

Have you pulled any codes from the brain lately?

At least it doesn't cost anything but time.

Hopefully you can find a timing light that doesn't set you back too much.

Doesn't need to be too special....as long as it has blinky light, you're good to go.

[jprater88]

Okay this may seems stupid if not idiotic but i have been having a starting issue that has popped its ugly head up.... Well it turned out to be a fuel filter needing replaced.... You might try there.... unless you already replaced it...

Edited July 30, 2010 by jprater88

[why3zx]

so my guess is you have two things wrong. let me guess this truck has high miles on this engine....(it is a pathfinder) number one, and this has to do with your hot start problem and the fact that it is diesleing, number two, you have carbon buildup in the cylinders. so this is what happens in a carborated gas engine that will cause it to diesel, when the engine is cold the first thing to heat up is the carbon left in the cylinders, when you shut it off the last bit of fuel is ignited by the hot carbon and will draw fuel from the float bowl and continue to run the engine without an actuall ignition spark. no obvioulsy you dont have a carb, but there is pressure remaining in the fuel system and if you have a leaky injector or 5 perhaps, one pre-ignition situation will "spark" this whole process off and cause the thing to run in reverse

[TrailChaser]

I finally solved the problem. It was a faulty distributor...

 

Thanks for the timing light recommendations because that is how I figured out it was a dist. problem. When checking the timing I noticed that things were a little strange because I was not getting a steady flash.(especially at higher RPM's) Then just for kicks I decided to leave the T-lite hooked up while playing around starting it to see how it would react when the engine cranked backwards. After a couple of failed cranking attempts I noticed that I was getting a seemingly random flash from the timing light AFTER the engine had stopped cranking. I'm talking about a solid flash 1-2 seconds after it stopped cranking..? That to me was all the evidence I need to shell out $65 for a used distributor from car-part.com.

 

I finally got out there this morning to install the dist. and now the pathy is running good again.

 

Thanks for all the help and I hope this follow-up quenches some of your curiosity about my mystery problem. Hopefully if anyone else runs across this problem they will find this thread and save a ton of time, $$$, & headache. lol

[bonehead]

trailchaser,

 

ok i know this is an old post but i need to know , when its @ operating temp. did it bog out and have lose of power?? also could u rev it up pass 3k rpm?? i saw the video and mypathy does the same thing. i also was buying and changing things like crazy. it would really make me feel more confident to get a new distributor if i knew ur pathy was acting up the same way mine is. thanks.

Edited January 3, 2012 by bonehead

[Slartibartfast]

The not-revving-past-3k means the computer's put in fail-safe mode. Given the whole running backward thing I'll bet it's getting all kinds of dire warnings from the knock sensor. If you want confirmation, do what he did and try a timing light.

 

Also, thanks for bumping this, I had no idea it was even possible to run a VG30 backwards.

[Alkorahil]

Hmmm....looks like I am a little late on this one......

 

 

its the distributor...my hardbody started to do this about 2 years ago and befuddled me for about 2 weeks, then I replaced the distributor and problem solved.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Alkorahil