XPLORx4 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I should probably share my experience with electric fans. I have previously installed 2 different electric fan models in my Pathfinder, for all the reasons mentioned above, and ultimately I swapped the stock fan back in. First attempt: Flex-a-lite #210 puller This fan does not cover the entire radiator, leaving approximately 20% of the surface area without forced cooling. Result: overheating at high engine loads at low speeds (i.e. climbing uphill in 4LO), especially in summer (ambient temp > 85°) Second attempt: Flex-a-lite #295 27" dual electric fan unit. This fan covers nearly all of the radiator, so it's efficient. However, its shroud takes some modification to make it fit in the R50. The steering box is very close to the radiator, so the shroud needs to be dremeled out in order to clear it. With this fan installed, I actually had the most problems with my truck: FAILURE 1 (user error): Location: Niagara Rim OHV area, Sierra Nevada range, central CA. Weather: over 100°F Event: water crossing. I forgot to turn off the fan before crossing. Result: nearly half of the fan blades breaking off the fans. This effectively ended my 4WD playtime, since cooling efficiency was reduced to 50%. I drove home without AC. Remedy: Replace broken fans. FAILURE 2 (electrical system failure): Location: a remote 4WD trail in the Feather River canyon, northern CA, 50 miles from the nearest village, and hundreds of miles from an auto parts store. Weather: 85°F-100°F Event: Alternator failure. My battery was in a weakened condition from having spent 3 nights camping. I actually needed a jump start to get my truck running. As our group started to depart, another vehicle required a jump start, so I jump started that vehicle. Oops. Result: the alternator fried, since my battery was still nearly dead. Without a way to provide electric power to my truck, I could no longer operate the electric fan to cool the engine. Unfortunately, we had a 45-minute 2000' steep climb up the canyon to reach the highway. Remedy: swap in the battery from a friend's truck until I could reach pavement, then swap back to mine. At highway speeds, I turned the fan off to let ram-air cool the engine. I drove over 200 miles on battery power alone, with all accessories off, making it to within 20 miles of my house. FAILURE 3 (another electrical system failure): Location: Goler Canyon Road, Death Valley NP, 130 miles from the nearest auto parts store, 30+ miles from pavement. Weather: 75°F Event: Alternator failure. I limped along for 2 days, getting frequent "recharging sessions" using jumper cables from rigs I was traveling with (or swapping batteries), whenever we had an opportunity to stop to sightsee. When we reached Furnace Creek (our destination), I called Autozone in Pahrump, NV and ordered a new alternator, which would arrive the following day. The next day I got a ride to Pahrump and replaced the alternator. FAILURE 4 (user error): Location: Saline Valley Road, Death Valley NP, 50+ miles from pavement. Traveling without other vehicles. Weather: 45°F-70°F Event: I switched the fan off to try to diagnose a loud suspension rattle, and forgot to switch it back on. Result: Engine overheated (254°F), top tank of radiator cracked wide open from end to end. Remedy: Fill water containers (9 gallons worth) from a natural spring, and drive the road as long as possible, watching the water temperature. Every time it reached about 220, I stopped for about 20-30 minutes, filled up the radiator (and engine block), then drove some more, shutting off the engine during descents. I ended up driving about 4-5 miles between stops, and consumed all 9 gallons of water before barely reaching Big Pine, where I called AAA for a tow to Bishop. I left the Pathy in Bishop, rented a car, drove home, pulled the stock fan off a shelf in my garage, bought a new radiator and coolant, returned to Bishop the next day and set everything back to stock. I haven't regretted ditching the electric fan one bit. Your results may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I should also point out that one benefit that the mechanical fan has over an electric fan is the shroud. The shroud allows the mechanical fan to spread out it's CFM's evenly over the entire radiator. The ideal setup would be to have two fans with a custom shroud, although it's not very economical. As long as you can cover most of the vertical channels in the radiator then you should be fine. I recommend getting the largest possible fans; I think the last time I checked the R50 has 27 5/8" of finned area, which is just small enough to prevent the use of 14" fans, unless you figure out some way to mount them to the radiator safely. why would the stock shroud need to be removed at all? why can't the stock belt driven fan be replaced with a similar sized electric fan that still mounts inside the stock shroud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 FAILURE 1 (user error): Location: Niagara Rim OHV area, Sierra Nevada range, central CA. Weather: over 100°F Event: water crossing. I forgot to turn off the fan before crossing. Result: nearly half of the fan blades breaking off the fans. This effectively ended my 4WD playtime, since cooling efficiency was reduced to 50%. I drove home without AC. Remedy: Replace broken fans. The Black magic bades are connected at the tip by an outer ring this makes them pretty hard to break since they will not move indivutually and The S sape of the blade reduces stress if the blade does strike water. mine have run in water but its still a good Idea to shut it off for initial entry. FAILURE 2 (electrical system failure): Location: a remote 4WD trail in the Feather River canyon, northern CA, 50 miles from the nearest village, and hundreds of miles from an auto parts store. Weather: 85°F-100°F Event: Alternator failure. My battery was in a weakened condition from having spent 3 nights camping. I actually needed a jump start to get my truck running. As our group started to depart, another vehicle required a jump start, so I jump started that vehicle. Oops. Result: the alternator fried, since my battery was still nearly dead. Without a way to provide electric power to my truck, I could no longer operate the electric fan to cool the engine. Unfortunately, we had a 45-minute 2000' steep climb up the canyon to reach the highway. Remedy: swap in the battery from a friend's truck until I could reach pavement, then swap back to mine. At highway speeds, I turned the fan off to let ram-air cool the engine. I drove over 200 miles on battery power alone, with all accessories off, making it to within 20 miles of my house. I got a 180A alty to remedy that, I once jumped a car so dead that the alty burned the fusable link to my charging system.(idiot was turing they key before his batt could recive some charge) If you plan to do allot of jumps having a capacator onboard would help sabilize the loads and protect other ectrical components. FAILURE 4 (user error): Location: Saline Valley Road, Death Valley NP, 50+ miles from pavement. Traveling without other vehicles. Weather: 45°F-70°F Event: I switched the fan off to try to diagnose a loud suspension rattle, and forgot to switch it back on. Result: Engine overheated (254°F), top tank of radiator cracked wide open from end to end. Remedy: Fill water containers (9 gallons worth) from a natural spring, and drive the road as long as possible, watching the water temperature. Every time it reached about 220, I stopped for about 20-30 minutes, filled up the radiator (and engine block), then drove some more, shutting off the engine during descents. I ended up driving about 4-5 miles between stops, and consumed all 9 gallons of water before barely reaching Big Pine, where I called AAA for a tow to Bishop. I left the Pathy in Bishop, rented a car, drove home, pulled the stock fan off a shelf in my garage, bought a new radiator and coolant, returned to Bishop the next day and set everything back to stock. I haven't regretted ditching the electric fan one bit. Your results may vary. maybe use a momentary off swich to prevent user negligance. I just trun the temp up on mine when I need it quiet for a bit. it still comes on before the danger temps. yes, some people have bad luck and results do vary. In my case I have not had a single fan related issue but I also read about all the potential desasters on N4W (similar to 'XPLORx4' and more...)so I set mine up with all those in mind to prevent them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxman0324 Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 Dean, thank you very much for your insight...I still want to know, did you feel the power benefits and see any fuel consumption benefits? Most of your issues were related to your fantastic off roading, which I have never done and will never do to your amazing degree (at least with this pathfinder while I don't have funds to fix issues that come up). Based on this, I think I still want to give this mod a try... My biggest question now is: Do I go with: 1 - 2 small fans having them come on at different temps or A/C coming on, NO shroud. 2 - The black magic fan which has a shroud to cover most of the radiator. 3 - Try to find a fan to fit the existing shroud for the mechanical fan. Any input is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
180sx Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 What about the Ford Villager? Doesn't that have about the same size radiator? I mighthave to look into this. Was going to go to the JY today but it decided to storm...damn... Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 My biggest question now is: Do I go with: well you know my vote, and don't forget the Black magic controler also has a wire for your A/C compressor so when it engages the fan turns on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathlesstaken Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I should probably share my experience with electric fans. I have previously installed 2 different electric fan models in my Pathfinder, for all the reasons mentioned above, and ultimately I swapped the stock fan back in. First attempt: Flex-a-lite #210 puller This fan does not cover the entire radiator, leaving approximately 20% of the surface area without forced cooling. Result: overheating at high engine loads at low speeds (i.e. climbing uphill in 4LO), especially in summer (ambient temp > 85°) Second attempt: Flex-a-lite #295 27" dual electric fan unit. This fan covers nearly all of the radiator, so it's efficient. However, its shroud takes some modification to make it fit in the R50. The steering box is very close to the radiator, so the shroud needs to be dremeled out in order to clear it. With this fan installed, I actually had the most problems with my truck: FAILURE 1 (user error): Location: Niagara Rim OHV area, Sierra Nevada range, central CA. Weather: over 100°F Event: water crossing. I forgot to turn off the fan before crossing. Result: nearly half of the fan blades breaking off the fans. This effectively ended my 4WD playtime, since cooling efficiency was reduced to 50%. I drove home without AC. Remedy: Replace broken fans. FAILURE 2 (electrical system failure): Location: a remote 4WD trail in the Feather River canyon, northern CA, 50 miles from the nearest village, and hundreds of miles from an auto parts store. Weather: 85°F-100°F Event: Alternator failure. My battery was in a weakened condition from having spent 3 nights camping. I actually needed a jump start to get my truck running. As our group started to depart, another vehicle required a jump start, so I jump started that vehicle. Oops. Result: the alternator fried, since my battery was still nearly dead. Without a way to provide electric power to my truck, I could no longer operate the electric fan to cool the engine. Unfortunately, we had a 45-minute 2000' steep climb up the canyon to reach the highway. Remedy: swap in the battery from a friend's truck until I could reach pavement, then swap back to mine. At highway speeds, I turned the fan off to let ram-air cool the engine. I drove over 200 miles on battery power alone, with all accessories off, making it to within 20 miles of my house. FAILURE 3 (another electrical system failure): Location: Goler Canyon Road, Death Valley NP, 130 miles from the nearest auto parts store, 30+ miles from pavement. Weather: 75°F Event: Alternator failure. I limped along for 2 days, getting frequent "recharging sessions" using jumper cables from rigs I was traveling with (or swapping batteries), whenever we had an opportunity to stop to sightsee. When we reached Furnace Creek (our destination), I called Autozone in Pahrump, NV and ordered a new alternator, which would arrive the following day. The next day I got a ride to Pahrump and replaced the alternator. FAILURE 4 (user error): Location: Saline Valley Road, Death Valley NP, 50+ miles from pavement. Traveling without other vehicles. Weather: 45°F-70°F Event: I switched the fan off to try to diagnose a loud suspension rattle, and forgot to switch it back on. Result: Engine overheated (254°F), top tank of radiator cracked wide open from end to end. Remedy: Fill water containers (9 gallons worth) from a natural spring, and drive the road as long as possible, watching the water temperature. Every time it reached about 220, I stopped for about 20-30 minutes, filled up the radiator (and engine block), then drove some more, shutting off the engine during descents. I ended up driving about 4-5 miles between stops, and consumed all 9 gallons of water before barely reaching Big Pine, where I called AAA for a tow to Bishop. I left the Pathy in Bishop, rented a car, drove home, pulled the stock fan off a shelf in my garage, bought a new radiator and coolant, returned to Bishop the next day and set everything back to stock. I haven't regretted ditching the electric fan one bit. Your results may vary. It seems as if doing the alternator upgrade at the same time as the fan switch would eliminate all but user error. question 1: Were you running other aftermarket electrical accessories (CB, Navigation, stereo, lights, etc) immediately before alty failure? question 2: After you switched to the dual fan set up and went offroading, did you notice any increase in the operating tempature of the engine that can be directly attributed to the conversion of an electric fan vs the stock fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 A factory alternator should have no problem pushing an electric fan. If the alternator was already on it's last legs then it probably would have gone away regardless. Headlights draw just as much, or even more, amperage as fans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathlesstaken Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 A factory alternator should have no problem pushing an electric fan. If the alternator was already on it's last legs then it probably would have gone away regardless. Headlights draw just as much, or even more, amperage as fans do. I'm going to be adding stuff anyway, so it would be prudent for me to make the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 A factory alternator should have no problem pushing an electric fan. If the alternator was already on it's last legs then it probably would have gone away regardless. Headlights draw just as much, or even more, amperage as fans do. I would disagree, the pre-90 were 60amp and 70-78amp on the later models. when you have 'just enough' or barely enough you are asking for trouble. 90amps would have been better even for the stock pathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 (edited) just a heads up on swapping alternators, I wouldn't even consider going to a 90 amp from a 60 or 70, don't think there is that much of a gain to justify the swap, however the 96 Maxima came with either a 110 (I have one in my 90 sentra) or a 125 amp, these can reguarily be picked up at most junkyards for about $20, I got mine on a 50% off sale day, stopped at the local auto parts store on the way home and had them test it on their tester and it works fine, later on took it to a auto electric shop to see about getting a different pulley and had them test it also, tested 100%, good thing is once you do the swap even if you have to make up a custom bracket or something if it does fail you can buy a new one from the auto parts and it will bolt right in. Here are the numbers comparing the output of a stock 70 amp alternator to a Maxima 110 and 125 amp alternators, note: most numbers were taken from the FSM and the additional numbers on the 70 amp were taken from the tag that came with the last 70 amp alt I bought for my sentra: I know this is a electric fan thread but alternators have come up a few times and I think this applies to the topic. notice the output numbers at idle (although the lowest rpm is above most vehicles idle speed) when the electric fan would be running on the 70 amp +16 vs the 125 of +36 70 amp alternator (for my sentra for comparison) output at RPM: 1300 - greater than 16 amps 1600 - 41 * 1800 - 48 * 2000 - 54 * 2500 - greater than 50 3000 - 68 * 5000 - greater than 62 6000 - 80 * * = numbers taken from test sheet included with re-manufactured 70 amp alternator 110 amp alternator out of 96 Maxima 1300 - greater than 35 2500 - greater than 85 5000 - greater than 110 125 amp alternator out of 96 Maxima 1300 - greater than 36 2500 - greater than 94 5000 - greater than 123 Edited May 30, 2010 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 An interesting write-up about electric fans. Worth a read! The Myth of The Electric Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift220 Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 I read the article and while the author has some points, some are missed also. Open the hood of your truck with the stock fan. You'll never see it disengaged. It's always spinning. So while idling your engine is working hard to turn a stock fan when an electric one wouldn't even be on. When do you burn the most fuel? While accelerating. So even during your initial acceleration, it is still turning the stock fan. The difference is very noticeable when switching to an efan. Second, the weight difference. If you have ever picked up a stock fan, it is quite heavy compared to an efan. Everyone knows spinning something heavy takes way more power then something light. Another bonus is that you take the weight off of the water pump shaft and the bearings will last longer. The author's logic for the 17 hp claim makes no sense. If an electric fan draws 15 amps, then that equates to 180 watts or 0.241 HP (@ 100% efficiency). His idea is replacing the stock fan with an electric one that uses up the same HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 what do you expect he owns a Mazda !!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
180sx Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 what do you expect he owns a Mazda !!! LOL I take offense to that comment (pic in sig is my 3gen RX-7, which, by the way, already has electric fans). But if you put aside all the numbers in that, he has a point. Taking the fan off will free up, at most, 2HP if you're lucky. More likely like .1, haha. Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastpath Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 IMO the only point to the e-fan swap is so you can switch it off for water crossings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 no offense meant, myself I'm not looking to gain any HP, I just need a new fan clutch and am exploring other options, If there was room I would keep the mechanical fan and add a pusher fan in front but there is very little room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxman0324 Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 I am mostly looking for mpg improvements, and everything I read about them makes them sound like a worthwhile improvement for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
180sx Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 MPG improvement. I guess every little bit helps. efan, manual hubs, skids. I'm sure it can all add up to maybe 3-4 more mpg. But then getting a lift with some bigger tires doesn't really help, but it gets balanced right? Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I take offense to that comment (pic in sig is my 3gen RX-7, which, by the way, already has electric fans). But if you put aside all the numbers in that, he has a point. Taking the fan off will free up, at most, 2HP if you're lucky. More likely like .1, haha. Jose That's the point he was trying to make in the article. The difference is pretty much negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmpath Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) I put electric fans on my 2002 R50 last summer and have never had it over heat. Here in NM the summers get to 105+. I went to the u-pull looking for a Taurus fan and ended up with two fans from a 2007 Acura TL. Originally I had a switch that would turn one fan one between 193-207, which ended up being 207, and the other fan came on with the AC, or anytime you use the auto setting on the climate control. The gauge never went over half way, but with the huge variation of the factory gauge, the engine still got pretty hot and it ran terrible when it was really hot out. I just replaced the 207 degree switch with one that turns the fan on at 185. It runs much better. Lol my brake pedal had been very low and now it is back to the top. I am guessing the hotter engine temps were killing my vacuum. The only thing I worry about now is that the fans are on almost all the time in city driving. As far as gas mileage I honestly didn't notice much difference, but the throttle response on a hot day is ten times better then with the engine fan. Edited June 7, 2010 by nmpath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 picked up a new fan clutch Saturday, the old one was definitely shot, the little coil spring was tightly wound even when it was cold, new one was unwound, but when I rev the engine I can hear that the fan is moving air. Haven't driven it on the road with the new fan clutch yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01silvapathy Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 I put electric fans on my 2002 R50 last summer and have never had it over heat. Here in NM the summers get to 105+. I went to the u-pull looking for a Taurus fan and ended up with two fans from a 2007 Acura TL. Originally I had a switch that would turn one fan one between 193-207, which ended up being 207, and the other fan came on with the AC, or anytime you use the auto setting on the climate control. The gauge never went over half way, but with the huge variation of the factory gauge, the engine still got pretty hot and it ran terrible when it was really hot out. I just replaced the 207 degree switch with one that turns the fan on at 185. It runs much better. Lol my brake pedal had been very low and now it is back to the top. I am guessing the hotter engine temps were killing my vacuum. The only thing I worry about now is that the fans are on almost all the time in city driving. As far as gas mileage I honestly didn't notice much difference, but the throttle response on a hot day is ten times better then with the engine fan. Pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto-m Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I just installed a black magic 180 electric fan. I'm an electric newbie so could use some help. Got as far as all the power wired up. Found an empty fuse location in the fuse box under the hood on the passenger side that said "RAD FAN". I guess there was an electric fan option on the R50 or it's the same box from another car? Anyway I used that and it is constant power so the fan runs with the truck off until cool. Where can I run it so it is ignition activated? Also, I am going to hook up the AC connection but I just look under the hood with a blank stare. Only wires I see from the condenser look like sensor connections and I don't know where to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Actually that is a good thing that they run until cool. My friends VW does the same thing from the factory. Have you ever noticed if you shut your truck off on a warm day (with the stock fan) and then turn it on like 5-10 minutes later the temp gauge has gone way up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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