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Servicing The Automatic Hubs ?


DoctorBill
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I was trying to search for a link to servicing the '95's Automatic 4WD Hubs.

Couldn't find anything except how to change them out to Warn Hubs.

 

My wife's Geo Tracker Manual Hubs wouldn't switch (stuck in Disengaged), so

I took them apart and greased them.

 

Lot of Rust on one side.

 

I figure maybe my used '95 V6-XE's automatic hubs could be the same.

 

Is there a good link (with pictures?) on how to open these babies up and Lube

them ?

 

Wouldn't want to rush in where Angels fear to tread and have the Hub go "Sproing!"

and have a nightmare on my hands....

 

I recently bought my '95 used and I'll bet the Automatic Hubs have never been

serviced at all.

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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I've got mine torn apart in the garage, I can post up some pics tomorrow ('91 but shouldn't be too different from the '95 AFIK). It's not too hard though really.... realized I didn't have anything better to do so I went and took some pics :D

 

1. Remove the 6 bolts from the Auto hub, it 'should' slide free from the axle bringing with it the O-ring, Spring and one of the brake pads. The O-ring is on the outside of the lip, on the hub. I searched on the floor thinking I had dropped it before I saw that it was still on the hub.

 

IMG_2881.jpg

Brake A

IMG_2886.jpg

 

2. Remove the snap ring with some snap ring pliers. It holds in two washers and the second brake pad.

 

3. The first washer is grooved to match the axle, the second washer has two prongs sticking into the second brake pad.

 

All the parts, in order of assembly top to bottom and left to right.

 

IMG_2885.jpg

TL: Hub, friction ring, bearing, helical ring, spring, brake A

BL: Snap ring, grooved washer, pronged washer, brake B

 

That's all the parts to the hub.

 

The FSM doesn't show it but you can take the other side of the hub apart too (the part that was bolted on)

Down inside it is a helical ring that should have a tiny slanted end, enough to get a screwdriver on it.

 

IMG_2883.jpg

 

I used a screw driver to start it out of the groove then pliers to pry it the rest of the way out, being careful not to bend it, only to coil it a little tighter so that it would slide out. After that's out the rest of the bearing slides out and can be cleaned and re-greased.

IMG_2882.jpg

IMG_2887.jpg

 

If you need any other pictures or clarification on anything, feel free to ask. The FSM says that the wear limit for brake A and B put together is 15.4mm (0.606 in).

Edited by NavyP503
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Holy Hubs, Batman! I sure didn't expect someone to take pictures of the

hubs being taken apart, NavyP503 !...and such nice photos!

 

Thank you so very much for that effort !

 

I had looked in the Chilton Manual and saw essentially zip (some tiny

unreadable diagram) and figured the FSM would be the same - wrong!

 

I apologize for not thinking of the FSM before asking about this....I'm losing it!

 

So I found the FSM's explanation (Section FA, Pages 19 - 25).

 

Here is a blowup of the Automatic Hub Diagram.

BTW - there is an exploded diagram of the Manual Hub in there also - end of post.

 

Hub_Diagram_-_0.jpg

 

Was your hub rusty inside, NavyP503 ?

 

Was the "O" ring in good shape ?

 

I would imagine that the big "O" ring could be purchased almost anywhere...(?)

 

Has anyone ever had any of the outer Bolts break off while taking them out ?

 

On my wife's Geo Tracker, I replaced the Allen Head Bolts with SS Hex Head

Bolts and applied Anti-Seize before re-installing them.

 

DoctorBill

 

Manual_Hub_Diag.jpg

Edited by DoctorBill
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The pictures are of the passenger side, the outside of the hub looks pretty bad but the inside was fairly clean. When I pulled it apart the grease was a little runny, and by the looks of the outside it had overheated pretty bad. The brake A part is really worn, and bent a little. The O-ring was actually in good condition, I was able to pull it off without it cracking. No worries about the FSM, I didn't find it too helpful either, I just start pulling stuff apart and cross my fingers :D

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Oh, and "how to correctly install auto hub".

Place a spring inside the hub. Place "Brake A" at the top of spring. Compress spring fully and rotate "Brake A" until its inner claws engages into corresponding claws inside the hub. Now you can install sub-assemblied hub.

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NavyP503 - Question

 

What is the object in your hand in the 5th picture with the broom

and Red Rag in the background ?

 

It is very large and does not look like anything in the Diagram from

the FSM....or in your 3rd photograph.

 

Is that a "sleeve" that goes INTO the outer hub casing shown on the

left in your third photograph (upper left on top row) ?

 

BTW - was your "O" Ring in good shape ? Any internal rust ?

Our posts are overlapping and I didn't see your answer!

 

If anything is broken or corroded, can the internal parts be had from Nissan ?

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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The picture is of the part that slides into the hub housing, the teeth showing are what engage to the hub, the other side has the dips that brake A normally rides in, when the axle starts turning the two 'hills' meet and push the those teeth together in the hub housing. I can take more pictures later if needed.

The parts can be had from Nissan, but for an arm and a leg, they wanted $50 for each set of brake A and B.

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I wonder why the exploded diagram in the FSM doesn't show that sleeve

as part of the exploded diagram ?! That's what 'exploded' means !

 

They have it as "Housing with sub-assembly".....how odd !

 

So that sleeve slides in and out to engage and disengage the splined

axle shaft ?

 

If so, then lubing the hub casing and sub-assembly is very important to

its function and dirt or rust would cause it to freeze...yes?

 

Has anyone had to replace these parts or do you just chuck the whole thing

and get another at a wrecking yard ?

 

...and why do they call those two parts "brakes" ?

 

DoctorBill

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This is the first time I've had one of these apart and the FSM doesn't exactly give theory of operation, so this is just what makes sense to me. If anyone knows otherwise please post it up!

 

2wd:

The hub housing is bolted to the rotor, so it spins as the wheel does.

The axle is stationary, so the slider (I think FSM calls this sleeve gear) is not spinning either, the gear teeth are disengaged and the hills on brake A are in the valley of the sleeve gear with the spring keeping the sleeve gear and brake A apart.

 

IMG_2891.jpg

Brake A on sleeve gear in 2wd position

IMG_2893.jpg

 

Brake B is keyed to the knuckle spindle and doesn't spin at all. Friction between the brakes keeps brake A stationary as well.

IMG_2889.jpg

 

4wd:

At a stop with the transfer case in 4wd as the axle starts to turn the sleeve gear turns, the hills of the sleeve gear engage to brake A, pushing it tighter against brake B until it's stationary and the hills of brake A begin pushing the sleeve gear into the hub housing until the teeth engage and the front wheel turns with the axle.

IMG_2892.jpg

IMG_2894.jpg

 

I think the reason for the brakes is to engage the teeth of the sleeve gear with the hub housing more gently. If they happen to be out of alignment as the axle begins to spin brake A can turn a little until the sleeve gear fully engages.

 

Hope it helps :D

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So that sleeve slides in and out to engage and disengage the splined axle shaft ?

 

...and why do they call those two parts "brakes" ?

Only inner spring-loaded part of this core assy slides in and out. It has two cams. When it rotates relatively to outer sleeve part, these cams moves inner sleeve until sleeve teeth engaged to a "crown" at the bottom of hub case.

Outer sleeve rests on a thrust bearing. A/B brake set (friction pair) prevents outer sleeve rotation until rotation torque rises over the specified limit.

So, when shaft rotates faster than a wheel, inner sleeve rotates too (outer sleeve is held by A/B brake), cams moves inner sleeve to a "crown" and voila! hub engaged (splined shaft is connected to a hub case).

Worn A/B brake set can't provide enough torque to allow cams "make their magic".

 

Has anyone had to replace these parts or do you just chuck the whole thing

and get another at a wrecking yard ?

Yes. It's relatively easy task, but be careful. Hubs from 4-cylinder engines (Z24i, KA24E, TD27T) and early VG30i has 27 splines. V-6 hubs (VG30E and last VG30i) has 28 splines. So, count splines before buy a used hub.

Edited by Terrano1992
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TERRANO1992 -

 

You said, (quote)

"And some advice: do not place excess grease inside the hub.

Apply thick layer of grease only to hub bottom, i.e. "crown" and ball bearing.

Other surfaces should be greased very slightly.

Excess grease gets thick when cold (even recommended to use "Nissan KRC19-00025" or

"Shell AeroGrease #7") and makes a problem with hubs engaging/disengaging."

 

Question....

 

Given the fact that I live in winter cold weather area (gets to -10°F or -24°C),

would it be better to use a couple drops of thick oil like the 90W transmission oil

to lube these hubs versus any grease. ?

 

It may be thick in winter, but may not get as viscous as a grease would become....

 

That is to say - it would flow instead of just sitting there !

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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Given the fact that I live in winter cold weather area (gets to -10°F or -24°C),

would it be better to use a couple drops of thick oil like the 90W transmission oil

to lube these hubs versus any grease. ?

 

It may be thick in winter, but may not get as viscous as a grease would become....

 

That is to say - it would flow instead of just sitting there !

Thick oil will flow out of the hub... Grease will not.

Practically you can use almost any high quality NLGI-2 grease for auto hubs, just don't put excess grease. It's approved by our Terrano club at Russian winters (up to -35°C). Mobilube XHP222, Castrol LMX and Liquimoly LM50 grease was tested with very good results.

Shell Aerogrease #7 (recommended by Nissan as replacement for original KRC19-00025) is very good grease, but hard to find in Russia. So, most of us use standard NLGI-2 (even "Litol", Russian NLGI-2 grease was used with acceptable results).

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I have been applying "Sili-Kroil" to the bolts on the Automatic Hubs for 2 days now.

 

Yesterday I applied a vibrating marker to the inside of some of the bolts to try to

vibrate the rust buster into the threads.

 

Vibrator.JPG

 

I used a 6 mm Allen Wrench in a ratchet wrench and applied pressure up to a point and

just waited. I was worried that I might snap one or more of the bolts off !

 

After applying pressure for maybe 10 to 15 seconds all six bolts slowly started

to rotate...got them all off.

 

Some had grease on the bolt end and none of the Rust Buster had migrated all the way

along the bolt to the threads ! Maybe had I waited several more days to a week...

 

Anyway - I got them all off and cleaned the threads by squeezing them in a Kleenex with

the edge of my thumbnail and turning them out - the Kleenex in the turning threads got

any crap out (were fairly clean).

 

I applied Permatex Anti-Seize Compound to all of the bolts, screwed them in and out in

order to distribute the compound thru-out the threads and then put them all back since

it started raining....had to stop.

 

 

Following TERRAN1992's advice, I bought a tube of LubriMate White Lithium Grease N.L.G.I. #2

(Code # 11354) at the Autostore and will disassemble the Hubs when the weather permits.

 

I have to work outside - Garage full of crap !

 

Should I jack the Front End up off the ground to do this? I.E. - Remove the wheel ?

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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I have to work outside - Garage full of crap !

I doubt you can remove helical lock ring from hub without vice or helper (unless you have 3 hands :) ). You need two hands to operate with two flat screwdrivers and third hand to hold hub at the same time...

 

Should I jack the Front End up off the ground to do this? I.E. - Remove the wheel ?

No. You can unscrew bolts without wheel removal? It means you can remove hub also.

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Today the weather cleared up, so I removed the Automatic Hubs to see

what was there - given that I bought the vehicle used.

 

Here is what was there...

 

Axle_Shaft.JPG

 

Hub_Side.JPG

 

I think that either the previous owner never went off road and/or

they took care of the hubs.

 

In good order.

 

No rust and they were greased well - so - "Don't fix it if it ain't broke."

 

Here is my wife's '97 Suzuki Sidekick hub which I will open up

sometime soon to have a look at.

 

These have gaskets which I will have to buy new or cut from gasket material.

 

Sidekick_Hub.JP.jpg

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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Really ! THAT MUCH grease seems excessive ? !

 

Frankly, I have no idea whether the Hubs work or not !

I went out on a gravel road in the spring and put it in 4WD when

I was buying the Pathfinder, but I couldn't tell if it was in Four Wheel....

...I'm a novice with automatic hubs.

 

If I put the vehicle in 4WD and jacked up the front end, dropped it out of

4WD, couldn't I test if the hubs were engaged by turning one side and the

other wheel would turn also ?

 

Something like that ?

 

Also....should the hubs get too cold of a morning, I would pour hot water on

them to free up the grease. Leave the "Pretty Sleeves" off of the hubs.

 

Also again...I have no idea what that grease is in the Hubs now.

 

Yes...I know what is coming...take them apart, clean off the grease, and

then put grease on them myself.

 

Then I will know what grease is on them....I am lazy, though.

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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Do you think maybe I should open the Hubs up again and wipe some of the grease

out with Kleenex - it was a rather thin grease (got some on my hands).

 

Now's the time as our weather has gone back up into the 30's and 40's....

 

If I go on a gravel road and 4 wheel, I'd need someone to stand outside and watch

the wheels - no one available.

 

Since the Hubs are so nice and clean and well greased, I think I will just ASSume

that they will work.

 

It will become obvious in the snow, whether they work or not.

 

They will ! - I have faith in my Pathfinder (and Japanese know how).....:tongue:

 

DoctorBill

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  • 3 years later...

(bringing it back from the dead)...So for the past year I have been having issues with my 4x4 on my 92 se pathfinder 5 speed. When I would have it in 4x4 and only when giving it gas it would pull side to side (like torque steer). I at first thought it was tires or alignment or steering component and I replaced it ALL. I still had the issue. I recently changed the axles and noticed something. I had taken the driver side apart to replace the axle and noticed even when in 4x4 and in gear the axle would still be able to turn (the other of the truck is still together) and I thought that was wired and it should of been locked in. Anyways I continued to put it all back together with all the new parts. I proceeded to do the passenger side after finishing the driver side. So on this side I noticed right away when I took it off my auto locking hub the "brake A" and the spring fell out as soon as I took it off. I then proceeded to replace everything and noticed when the truck was in 4x4 and in gear the axle would lock and I couldn’t spin it like I could when I was working on the other side. So I thinking my locking hub on this side is either broke or not put together right. I looked at the service manual and the other hub but I can’t figure out why they hub doesn’t go together the same as the other one. I can try to make a video of it if that will help. Is there a video someone knows of that shows taking it apart and putting it all back together so I can check and see its right. Does that sound like a reasonable thing that would cause the the 4x4 issue?

Edited by edicer2
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I had taken the driver side apart to replace the axle and noticed even when in 4x4 and in gear the axle would still be able to turn (the other of the truck is still together) and I thought that was wired and it should of been locked in.

The front diff is an open diff so only one side will drive. Is this what you are experiencing? I'm not quite clear on the other side, if it is locked, on the ground or what. Sorry, I have manual hubs so I can't experiment.

 

 

So I thinking my locking hub on this side is either broke or not put together right. I looked at the service manual and the other hub but I can’t figure out why they hub doesn’t go together the same as the other one. I can try to make a video of it if that will help.

That would probably help since I don't understand how it doesn't go together the same as the other side with a reference and the FSM. :shrug:

 

 

Is there a video someone knows of that shows taking it apart and putting it all back together so I can check and see its right.

Not here that I recall. Maybe youtube?

 

B

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Hi guys! I recently check my automatic locking hubs and i found out that the "SPRING'' is already in very bad condition. Is this repairable or replaceable? What will i do?

 

Here's the picture of the Locking Hub Spring:

 

automaticlockinghubpart.jpg

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Another possibility that may help you in the future is this guy. He runs an on line parts department at a dealership in Texas. He is very knowledgeable, has good prices and I believe he recently started shipping over seas as well.

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/18653-genuine-nissan-parts/

 

B

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