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Exhaust Manifold Noise


DoctorBill
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Well, my Timing Belt and Transmission Cooler seem to be working well so far after

I posted the long, extended, verbose diatribe of several months ago.

 

So far - so good.

 

Now. I want to get the Right Exhaust Manifold (when sitting in the driver's seat)

fixed so it doesn't "tick" anymore.

 

Is the OEM Gasket from Nissan any better than anyone else's gaskets ?

 

Is it Manifold "A" or Manifold "B" [14036M] GASKET-EXHAUST MANIFOLD,A [14036N] GASKET-EXHAUST MANIFOLD,B

http://www.courtesyparts.com/kb_search_result.php?chassis_id=31&keywords=manifold+gasket&Submit_Button=Go&cat=1

 

Where do I purchase the "better" bolts for the repair - the old ones were weak (no?).

What are they called so I can ask a parts clerk the right questions?

 

The mechanic wants $190 (4.5 hours labor) for the job. I want to buy the parts.

 

I'd do it myself, but it is winter and I am getting tired of working on cars because

I am an old, tired curmudgeon and bending over the fender and cutting my hands up

is not something I want to do anymore.

 

Right now, it is worth $190 to watch some other poor soul do the work...

 

DoctorBill

1995 V6-XE 4x4.

Edited by DoctorBill
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Well, I just installed headers so this is fresh in my mind. To replace the gasket is not bad, nothing like the timing belt but if you don't have a comfortable place to do the work, forget it.

 

Felpro makes a decent gasket, I don't know about the OEM.

 

The Stealership will sell you some studs, washers and nutz for $4-5 a set. I used M8x1.25x30mm grade 10.9 (grade 8 equivalent) hex head bolts with standard plated washers. Seems to be holding tight, but that was only about 20 miles ago.

 

Oh, congrats on the timing belt/tranny cooler. Check out my thread on tranny temperature gauges... :D

 

B

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Bolts or studs ?

 

How many are required for the Right Side Manifold ?

(left side if facing the engine from the front of the vehicle) ?

 

What is the "standard" way to refer to the "sides" on an engine?

 

Sounds like the Manifold is held down with nuts, but you used Hex Head Bolts?

 

Where did you buy them? I have a Farm Supply here in my backwater small town

that has #8 bolts - no studs.

 

Did you have trouble getting them out ?

 

Does a soak with something like "Kano Sili-Kroil" loosen them up ?

 

I am worried that a "meat hands" mechanic will bust a stud when trying to remove them

(you know - trying to do the job in the allotted "book time")

and then have to drill it out and ruin my engine....(but I don't want to do it myself!).

 

FelPro - from O'Reilly $16

FelPro Ex Man Gasket "Set"

the Rol set cost 2x as much....made out of Platinum ? $30

Rol Ex Man Gasket "Set"

 

wow!

 

DoctorBill the worrier.

Edited by DoctorBill
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The stock manifolds are held on with studs in the head and nuts/washers. I removed mine without issue or broken stud and installed headers using standard hex head bolts. All 6 studs simply unscrewed when rotating the rusted nut, same as a bolt. :shrug:

 

Soaking never hurts. I used PB Blaster but Kroil is good stuff also. Autozone has Felpro, but I think most chains will.

 

If you want some bolts, I'll mail you 8 just give me an address.

 

*note, if your exhaust falls off or whatnot, it's not my fault. :D

 

B

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Also being fresh from a header install, I can shed some light.

 

driver and passenger side suffice for "standard" denotations for left and right. (Right is Passenger)

 

There is a good chance a stud or two has already broken off in the head. I had 2, total, in the job I just did, both on the driver's side. I was able to weld nuts (fill weld the nut, to the stud) and turn them out. Many mechanics will simply drill them out, possibly reverse-drilling.

 

I would agree with B that you can just as easily go with bolts instead of studs, but I used studs, and did find it nice and easy to slide the header onto the studs, which held the header in place, while I started the nuts. Both B and I have the benefit of body lifts, which give us more room to work on the manifolds through the wheelwell.

 

A soak in penetrating lube can't hurt your cause.

 

Most decent auto parts stores will carry Fel-Pro gaskets. They're one of, if not the, bigggest names in aftermarket gaskets.

 

Good luck! :aok:

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OK....FelPro is fine I suppose.

 

As to the Studs or Bolts - O'Reilly sells many "Sets" - see link below

O'Reilly Ex Man Bolt "Sets"

 

Thanks for the offer Precise1 ! I'll get everything at O'Reilly (Schuck's here in Spokane, WA)

 

Which set do you fellows recommend ? Or buy each stud ? - 6 needed (counted the holes in the gaskets)

I see some are labeled Number 8 Steel.

 

Once I do this, will it ever likely start leaking again ?

 

We are getting some light snow now and then, so I am getting the 'old girl' ready to walk me

thru the drifts so I can get "to town" and do my thing. I'll keep my "Automatic Hubs".

 

My little Geo Metro doesn't cut it when the snows come!

 

DoctorBill

 

PS - I see the Forum Updated the Software.....very nice !

Edited by DoctorBill
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Once I do this, will it ever likely start leaking again ?

 

 

I've got two service tickets from 1995 where the left and right sides were replaced about 3 months apart under the regular Nissan warranty when my truck was 2 years old. Now 15 years later mine are still quiet and tight so yes there is hope that a one time fix is permanent.

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4.5 hrs for $190, what a deal!!! The problem isn't labor though, it's the inevitable snapping of the studs. Lot's of liquid wrench for days on end and no heating of the manifolds may do the trick. If you snap studs they cannot be repaired with the engine in the truck!!! Good luck.

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If you snap studs they cannot be repaired with the engine in the truck!!! Good luck.

Incorrect. I had 2 snapped in the head. Got them both out with the motor still in.

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When I had mine done (for $300) they told me they would plane the manifolds a bit so they wouldn't warp again. Since I knew nothing of headers at the time I just had them replaced the gaskets and fix the studs. I had 2 broken on the passenger side (the rear most ones) and 3 stripped on the drivers side. (they said someone obviously tried to tighten them up, man that was freaking loud when it let go on me!!!)

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If you snap studs they cannot be repaired with the engine in the truck!!! Good luck.

 

It's a pain in the butt, however it's possible. I had three broken studs in my Pathfinder. I went to remove the manifolds, and even with heat and PB Blaster, two more studs broke...so I had five to drill out and extract out of the original twelve. All of them were broken off flush with the heads.

 

I removed the rubber splash shields in the front wheel-wells and removed the front tires. I also used extended drill bits (12" long, one 1/8" pilot drill and another *just* smaller than the 8 mm studs). I used a spring-loaded center punch to center the drill bits.

 

It took a long weekend, but I got them all out, and ran a tap through every hole to clean the threads. Then I used some stainless studs I got from MCMaster-Carr, some thick stainless washers and stainless nuts, and anti-seized the heck out of everything before re-assembly. So far so good, it's been a few years now since I did them.

Edited by Rallybob
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Once I do this, will it ever likely start leaking again ?

 

To add to this, there's a couple other factors involved. Depending on how badly the leak is, How long it has been leaking, and how hot it gets,(driver driving the piss out of it) there could be some Warpage on the stock manifold. In that case, even if you seal it up nice and tight, it wont be sealed perfect and may eventually have another leak. May want to have them take a look at it with a straight edge to see if anythings out of line before going thru the whole process and finding out the hard way that something was. If there is warpage, then you can have it shaved, pick up a new one, or just do as many others on here die for an excuse for and buy Headers. Good luck with the process and that Labor Price is a steal. Shops locally here charge $77.00 CAN an hour, and where I used to live in Northern Alberta it was $107.00CAN an hour. Hence the reason I decided to tackle my own Timing belt job.

 

*edit* and one more thing, When any book or Manual refers to Left or Right side, they are referencing as if you were sitting in the drivers seat. (Left being drivers side and Right passengers side, as Simon mentioned.)

Edited by Dowser
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I called Schuck's about the FelPro Gasket Set (have it) and about the Dorman Studs (had ONLY one !).

Is the FelPro Gasket "Metalized" on one or both sides ?

 

I asked if the stud was Metric - he went and looked and gave me English thread size !

 

So, now I don't know if I can trust O'Reilly's web site....

 

Here is the photo from O'Reilly's web site:

Ex_Man_Stud_Pic.jpg

 

Are both ends of this stud Metric ?

 

Which end goes into the Engine Block - the shorter end ?

If so, then that must be the M8x1.25 that Precise1 talked about....

 

What is it's overall length ? 30 mm ?

 

This $1.50 stud at Schuck's is apparently the same stud that CourtesyParts.com wants

$3.76 (plus shipping costs) for...

CourtesyParts.com's E.M. Studs

...and CourtesyParts.com doesn't even say Grade 8 or not.

 

Schuck's ---> 6 x $1.49 = $8.94 or CourtesyParts (Nissan) ---> 6 x $3.76 = $22.56 plus $10 shipping.

 

Would buying Stainless Steel Bolts (M8x1.25x30mm) do any good ?

 

I suppose slathering the threads with Anti-Seize Compound would help...if I ever needed to do this again (?)

 

ALSO - Should the mechanic use a gasket compound like Permatex's Copper Spray-A-Gasket Hi-Temp Sealant ?

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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Here is some stud info, it was 47mm OAL IIRC.

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=23631&view=findpost&p=446681

 

I don't know about that stud, but yes, with the stock ones the M8x1.25 (shorter) end threads into the block.

 

As said, I used 30mm long bolts, 25mm long should work just fine also.

 

I see no need for antisieze, outside of the rust belt they come out easy enough and the torque is only 15 ft/lbs or so.

 

I used Permatex copper high temp gasket-from-a-tube on my headers gasket(both sides) and on the collector. So far so good. :shrug:

 

B

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Wow!

 

Didn't expect so many comments on this thread.

 

More information from Spokane....

 

I called Jaremko Nissan here and found the parts Dept prices for NISSAN parts.

 

Gasket - $34.38 part No. 14037 - V5000

 

Studs - $3.99 each Part No. 14065 - V5004 He doesn't know the grade of steel !

 

Total $58.32

 

 

If I use Schuck's stuff, $24.93 and the studs are Grade 8.

 

If I used simple M8x1.25 x 30 mm - probably cost even less.

 

Now...what are my chances that the mechanic will break off one or more of the old studs? :omg:

 

 

What are the chances that one or more of the old studs are already broken off :headwall:

 

 

What are the chances that an old stud like me will get any soon ? :thumbsdown: ..and... :whocares:

 

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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I would suggest that if the studs aren't already broken, there shouldn't be much issue with them breaking off upon removal. I had one that looked like it was okay, and as soon as I put the ratchet on it, it snapped. I didn't even torque it. The rust, I assume, held it in place.

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I really, really don't want to do this job myself, what with late Fall's rains,

freezing nights, and 30 mph winds in this wheat country (rolling hills)...

 

...but I will bet the mechanic won't want me telling him to use bolts instead of

studs and wanting Permatex Copper Gasket compound used on the Gasket.

 

Mechanics tend to think THEIR way and anyone with the audacity to ask or even

want it done a certain way, get ugly stares and "well, I can't guarantee the job

then!" said to them.

 

What is funny is, the "guarantee" NEVER includes the labor - which is usually

the majority of the cost ! What do I care about a $16 gasket when the whole thing

cost $250 !? That is actually funny ! Ya, right....

 

One thought - I read in someone's post that they used Bolts and tightened them up

every year. Why?

 

Why would Bolts be any more likely to loosen up than the Studs would ?

 

 

I guess I'll order the Schuck's materials and arrange for the shop to do the labor

and hope it all works out.

 

I'll take a metric nut for the M8 x 1.25 Stud with me to examine the threads just

to be sure I am getting the "right stuff".

 

Once done, I'll post the results back here....may take a week or so...

 

Funny thing - once you start working on your own car, you don't trust other mechanics

to mess with your 'baby'...

 

DoctorBill

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I repaired my mainfolds about 3 years ago(maybe a touch more, Its been a while), I found upon removal of my right manifold, someone had beenthere before. They really knew what they were doing. They used a aftermarket "stud" and installed it crooked. Upon removal, I found that they drilled out the old broken stud, but somehow messed up from threre, and slapped it back together haphazardly, so, it leaked again. I fixed it correctly to say the least, even with the old manifolds.

I do recommend you getting the factory studs, as they are studs from the turbo motor in the 300zx. They survive better under high heat. Yeah, I dont know what the metal type is, but I cant think of one time where one has broken again and came back to me(thats counting about 100 or so manifold jobs). Make the parts guy give you a deal, they are only about a buck a piece, but they are trying to make thier money like anyone else.

Oh, and yes, you can do it in the car as stated. If you dont have longer drill bits, hopefully you have a 90 degree drill(thats what I use). Or, go and buy a selection of longer drill bits, just get good ones. I have used a larger bit to begin drilling the "face" of the broken stud away. The broken stud leaves a burr behind and will dig into the head and keep you from removing easily. Use a smaller bit to drill into the now centered up stud, and use a extractor to remove. Its worth getting all 6, so you dont have to worry about it later on.

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What I did below was on the advice of 5523Pathfinder.....

 

I went to Jaremko Nissan today and purchased the Right Side Exhaust Manifold Gasket

and the six Nissan Studs and they talked me into buying the studs that connect the

exhaust pipe to the manifold. I must be an easy 'mark'....

 

Rt_Ex_Man_Gaske.jpg

 

Notice from the Picture that the Stud Packages say "Stud Turbo Chg" on them.

Also the Gasket is Metalized.

Also the Gasket label does not say Left or Right - must be symmetrical.

Do the Studs have that #8 HARDNESS look ?

 

The Part Numbers are:

Gasket (Rt Side) 14037 - V5000 $34.38 Gave me a "Deal" @ $27.50

Studs (six) 14064 - N420A $4.24 ea The 'Deal' ....@ $3.53 ea Updated part number (?)

Connector Studs (3) 14065 - V5004 $4.56 ea The 'Deal' @ $3.80 ea.

 

Total was $60.89 + WA State Tax.= $66.19

 

At Schuck's this would have been about HALF the above price.

 

On the way out, I visited the Repair Dept and asked what they would charge for

the labor to replace the Right Exhaust Manifold.

 

The guy told me $383 (didn't even have to look it up !) and $50 for each broken Stud

that has to be drilled out.

 

The mechanic at a local shop I frequent wants $190 (never asked what he charges to

drill out broken studs !)

 

DoctorBill

 

PS - Oh BTW...I saw the New Nissan "Cube" in the showroom !

Lord God in Heaven.....Hideous beyond all attempts to describe !

Worse than the Honda "Element" - a big version of the "Smart Car" !

Looks like some psychopath NERD with bad vision designed it.

Is this what our future holds in store for us ?

------> The CUBE <------

Edited by DoctorBill
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Lord!

 

Now I know why I don't want to do this job myself !

 

Today I went out and removed the cover plate on the right side exhaust manifold.

It started snowing !

There is almost no room to get at the damned thing !

 

Once the cover plate was off, I hosed as many of the stud nuts with "Sili-Kroil"

rust loosener, that I could get at, so that maybe they will come off easily when

the mechanic works on it this coming Monday ($75/hour - 2.5 hours supposedly).

 

I found at least TWO of the Studs/Nuts missing !

 

One was the second from the left on top and another was underneath (toward the

front ???).

 

They either broke off or were not installed - probably the former.

 

I pity that mechanic having to work on that manifold - what a crap job!

 

At least he has a lift.

 

I hope he knows to take the wheel off and go at the manifold that way.

 

I also went to our Farm Hardware Store today and purchased six of the nuts

that hold the manifold on plus the three that hold the Exhaust pipe to the manifold.

 

A true hardware store - nuts and bolts (all grades) are sold by weight !

Not in plastic 'bubble packs' like the dime store type hardwares stores now.

$2.87 for 9 nuts and three washers by weight.

 

So...I expect that another $150 - $200 at least will be added to the cost to

take out the broken off studs...I wonder how long it will take per broken stud ?

Thank God the engine side of the stud is short - only about 14 mm deep.

 

What does it cost to plane the manifold flat (more or less)?

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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Hey, I never said it was going to be a easy job. You tackled your timing belt pretty well, you can do this.

 

Yeah, the higher price for the parts suck, but, you dont want to do this twice.

 

The nuts and washers you have missing, are probably the broken ones(lemme guess, the very forward and very rearward).

 

Hope you got good and long drill bits. If not, your tally is going to go up.

 

Call your local machine shop. They cant charge you more than $50 to machine the manifold(our place here local is $35).

 

Good luck and keep us updated(you do a great job doing so!!)!!

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Took the Pathfinder in Yesterday (Sunday Morning) and left it.

One of the Mechanics showed up a while later and drove it into the shop.

 

Today they fixed the Right Side E.M.

 

One Stud was broken off (Front) and they drilled it and took it out with a "Reverse Drill"

for $60.

 

The other stud I couldn't feel with my fingers was a BOLT - toward the rear.

 

Cost:

$310.88

 

$180.00 Labor ($75/hour)

$ 60.00 removing the broken Stud.

$ 37.50 R&R Studs in Manifold for Header Pipe.

$ 8.50 Shop Supplies (?)

 

$ 24.88 WA State Sales tax.

 

I had them apply "Anti-Seize" to the Stud Threads and Use Permatex Copper High Temp

Spray-On Gasket Compound (which I provided).

 

He said the Manifold was flat.

 

Also said the Left Manifold is ticking - small leak up front.

Did I want to make an appointment for that....? Later.....!

 

Had to leave it there for me to pick up tonight when I can get a ride into Spokane.

 

Don't know how it sounds - had to leave.

 

Question - is the Left side Manifold very hard to work on ?

 

Could it wait until next Spring !? I might tackle it if it isn't

some Gawd-Awful type thing.

 

Will driving it with the Left Side ticking hurt anything?

 

Some comments from the mechanic who did the work: (I always ask multiple questions.

That is how I learn things.)

 

Someone had worked on it before and used some BLUE material on the Gasket

and that material had crapped out and exhaust had forced a way thru it.

 

He didn't know what it was - could someone have used Blue RTV ?

 

So - $311 plus the Studs and Gasket I had spent $61 on - Total $372 for the

Right Manifold.

 

I guess I didn't do too bad, huh ?

 

 

I wonder how long the R&R will last now.....?

 

AND - I hope this vehicle was worth all this !

 

Winter snows coming and with all this "Global Warming" Bullcrap, I hope my Pathfinder

will bulldoze thru the snow - with those "Automatic Hubs" and all !

 

DoctorBill

Edited by DoctorBill
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