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Bilstein Shocks


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Every time I see a thread about bilsteins I have to post this photo. all though yours my be a more durable line.

 

 

f_1000422m_dc7f02a.jpg

 

 

I replaced them with ranchos and have not had a problem yet.

 

I think my next ones may be old man emu's

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When a shock compresses, it becomes shorter right? Doesn't matter if its upside down or rightside up, it still compresses and it still forces fluid through the same valving the same direction. Therefore the compression numbers and rebound numbers will stay the same.

 

Using your logic, if I mounted the shock horizontally, it would have no compression or rebound damping ;)

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hey i can give you part numbers, but the shocks are at my dads so it will be a few days until i go there if your interested

 

 

That would be awesome!

 

Billy

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Using your logic just stick with some generic shocks if you dont understand how they work, or mount them upside down i really dont care what you do lol. For the 2nd time. Mounting the shock, upside down, in relation to the vehicle, how a normal 7100 series shock would normally sit on the vehicle with the body being on the top and the shaft being on the bottom will change the way the valving is in relation the vehicle, the shock itself, has the same valving no matter what, but if its upside down those numbers will be reversed. Im not saying somehow the internals of the shock change because you flip it upside down, its exactly the same. You're just not understanding.. Mount the shocks horizontally if you want, using a cantilever setup, just make sure its not backwards.. Or if you really really really want to mount your shock upside down, reverse the valving discs inside...

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Every time I see a thread about bilsteins I have to post this photo. all though yours my be a more durable line.

I replaced them with ranchos and have not had a problem yet.

 

I think my next ones may be old man emu's

 

Bilstein HD shocks are pretty durable, but even the good stuff can break.

 

some of the OME shocks use an 18mm shaft vs. the Bilstein HD 14mm. I haven't ordered my OME shocks yet so I can't verify if the model for the R50s uses the heavier 18mm rod.

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This is simply not correct. First of all, if it were true then you would think somewhere it would state that one end of the shock needs to be installed on the "wheel" side of the suspension and the other would have to be on the "body" side.

 

Here is a picture of your 7100 shock. See where the compression valve stack and rebound valve stacks are? Ok, so when the shock compresses, it gets shorter right? Which means that the piston moves to the right (in relation to the picture) and oil is forced through the compression valve stack (pushed to the left).

 

What you are telling me is that if I flip the shock around on the vehicle, that somehow when the shock is compressed, the oil flows the same direction? I hope not or you can kiss that shock goodbye.

 

If I really am that blind then please use the picture to explain your point. Otherwise maybe I will stick with my generic shocks :rolleyes:

post-5196-1254428745_thumb.jpg

Edited by shift220
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A little more on topic, I have the Bilstein HD's on all four corners of my Sonoma and they perform great. Handling, braking, heavy loads and towing all feel very solid and controlled. No compliants and I too have heard many great things about Bilsteins. Apparently lots of people have them outlast their vehicles :aok:

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okay, for the 3rd time. when a shock compresses it gets shorter... (thats obvious).. the piston is moving to the right on the picture. The oil is completely stationary minus the small movements the entire body of coil has when the piston is rapidly moving which is cushioned by the nitrogen gas in the gas chamber. The piston and the valve stacks are what slows the shock down. The shock can only work one way. Not upside down, because say you rotate that picture 90 degrees to the left, thats how it would normally sit on a vehicle, piston rod down, body side up. lets say its a 255/70 shock again. when that shock is mounted the correct way on the vehicle like i just said, and you hit a bump, you'll be getting that 700 N of resistance from the compression valve stack through the oil. When you go airborne, your wheel that is airborne will be rebounding with a resistance of 255 N. So when you take that shock, flip it 180 degrees, those numbers are reversed. The compression valve stack is now the rebound stack and vice versa. Does that make more sense? Im not trying to pick a fight im just trying to help you as well as anyone else who might not understand, understand.

 

Technically the shock can work upside down, but its going to ride different. But to have it work like its suppose to, then you'll install it the correct way. unless you need it piston rod side up, then get the shock custom built with whatever compression and rebound valve stacks you want.

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I'm not trying to start a fight either. Its just a discussion.

 

Here's another look at it. When a shock is compressed, there is a axial compression force placed on the shock. In the engineering world, a free body diagram would look like this (attached). F is the axial force. The wheel hits a bump and transmits a force through the shock and that force is equal and opposite from the body mount. This free body diagram explains exactly how the forces transmit through the shock.

 

Now since the forces applied are equal and opposite, it simply does not matter how the shock is mounted. It sees the same singular force "F".

 

Now if we were to get technical, the only differences between mounting up or down is more/less unsprung weight and the weight of the oil in the shock either working against the compression or rebound valving. This is of course quite neglectable on vehicles like ours.

post-5196-1254431161_thumb.jpg

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I think thats true and also not true. The way I see it is, using the new picture above, The 2 forces are being dampened at different rates. using the 255/70 valving again, force #1 (on the left side of the picture, is getting resisted at 700N at 0.52 m/s. Force #2 is getting dampened at a rate of 255N at 0.52m/s. Force #2 is a fixed point, Force #1 is not. So say you rotate the picture 180 degrees what happens? all the numbers are reversed.

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My picture does over-simplify the dynamics behind it but the overall idea is the same. When the suspension compresses, the compression valving is decelerating the motion (oil bypasses the rebound valving), then the exact opposite happens when the suspension extends.

 

You say force #2 is a fixed point but what makes it any more fixed then the rear axle?

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Well I think we can say force #2 is at a fixed point in relation to the vehicle because whats really moving is the axle which would be represented by force #1. There are so many different ways so many different people can look at it. You're right that the oil bypasses the rebound valving on the compression stroke and vice versa, but I think if you mount the shock the opposite way its suppose to, the compression and rebound characteristics are backwards. regardless of how the oil bypasses through the piston.

 

This is kind of hard to talk about so in depth like so because technically you're right about that there are forces on both sides of the shock, no sides are fixed but force #1 is connected to what will move up and down the most. But then you could look at it in a way of the axle is fixed and its the body of the vehicle that in motion.

 

We could say force #1 is the force the compression valve stacks are taking while force #2 is the force in which the rebound valve discs are taking up.

 

I guess to simply what im saying to everyone is that when you mount a shock opposite of how its suppose to be mounted, the compression discs take over the role of the rebound dampening and the rebound discs take over the role of the compression dampening.

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Well like I said before, the compression valves do the damping when the shock is compressing. Doesn't matter how you mount the shock, when the suspension compresses, so does the shock therefore only the compression valves are damping.

 

Rebound is the exact opposite, it controls how fast the shock is extending (and ultimately the suspension itself). No matter how you mount the shock, it is going to rebound/extend and only the rebound valving is acting.

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I beg to differ, I still think if you mount it upside down it will reverse the characteristics of the shock. Why else are they specific as to which way you mount the shock. I can see where you are coming from but I guess the only way to find out is buy some shocks and see what happens... lol.

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I really like the R50 rear Bilsteins. Compliant and allow plenty of flex.

 

I have 5100s front and 6100s rear on my Tacoma. They seem much stiffer. But I also swapped the front coils and added a leaf at the rear, which didn't help things in the stiffness department.

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I really like the R50 rear Bilsteins. Compliant and allow plenty of flex.

 

I have 5100s front and 6100s rear on my Tacoma. They seem much stiffer. But I also swapped the front coils and added a leaf at the rear, which didn't help things in the stiffness department.

 

Says you with your fancy Body on Frame Truck :tongue:

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I run KYB GR2's up front I only have the Ranchos in the rear. I couldn't be more happy with the KYB's (super nice ride).

 

X2

 

I run KYB GR-2s all around, great ride and handling. They have somewhere past 50k miles on them already and still perform like new.

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