Failed smog.. barely... need ideas!

[Slick]

hey y'all... Pathy failed her smog test today.. BARELY but she still failed. Here's the results:

 

co2: @15mph allow: 15.03 blew 0.06 @25mph allow 15.10 blew 0.02

hc @15 allow 118 blew 135 @25 allow 98 blew 70

co @15 allow 0.68 blew 0.18 @25 allow 0.87 blew 0.06

no @15 allow 999 blew 368 @25 allow 859 blew 237

 

ok. For those who don't know.. I (as of Feb 05) have Thorley headers, brand new high flow cat (3 months old), brand new Flowmaster 50 seriesd muffler (5 months old), all runnin through 2.5" pipe.

I have 6 month old spark plugs and wires, brand new rubber lines (everything.. vaccum.. rad.. etc) 6 month old t-bet, h2o pump and all other belts.

he said timing was at 14. She runs great and gets decent gas mileage. I change my oil every 3,000 miles religously with Valvoline Max Life 10w-40 and I changed it 2 days ago, when oil was draining, for the first time I smelled gasoline in the oil. the oil itsself looked good, but stank.

I had also filled her up with gas and put in Lucas Injector Cleaner 2 days ago as well...

I cleaned my K & N air filter and MAF sensor last week, and checked all lines to make sure nothing was amiss.

I also have a (since Feb) Bosch o2 sensor as well.

Any more info needed.. let me know!

She's a 1992 Pathy Xe vg30e motor 4x4. :contract:

Also!! my check engine light has not come on.. but I am beginning to wonder if it even works.. how can I check this?

Edited November 8, 2005 by Slick

[Slick]

hello? anyone? *hears cedric chirp from across the room*

[Simon]

Okay.....on the check engine light. If you turn your key to the on position, without starting it, the check engine light should illuminate. That's your indication that it's working. IF not, that's okay. You can still run the codes on the ECU, because even if your check engine light IS working, it may still have a code that wouldn't trip the CEL.

 

I'd start there, and let us know what you find, but smelling gas in the oil is NOT a good thing. Could be a leaky injector, or it could be a seal/gasket somewhere has failed.

 

Good luck, and report back anything you find.

[lgranch]

This is strange to me to blow high HC and not NO. Usually high HC means a bad tune, burning too much fuel or burning it poorly. I have tricks to pass on bad NO and CO but not many for bad HC. Usually the hotter the engine the lower the HC.

 

I could be mistaken but I think the O2 sensor will not do anything with HC adjustment. Have you checked the EGR for function that could screw up a HC level.

 

My problem here is that SLick you are competent around motors. I am sure that you have checked all the obvious stuff and now it is a quirky problem.

[Slick]

yes, I am competent, and I have smogged trucks for years, whichis why I am at such a loss.

I will have to look up the section about running codes, or CAPS said my local shops should run the codes for me for free. No, the check engine light has never come on, under any circumstances, nor has the oil light when I know I was dangerously low.

When I pulled the motor, I put a new intake plentum gasket on, and all other relavent gaskets were new (valve cover, etc)...

I had to almost beat the EGR valve into submission to fit intot he Thorleys, but it sseems to function fine, and checking that is part of the smog test he did, so if it wasn't functioning, he would have told me (smog test only station)... from what I can gather, after Dave did endless research for me and talking to the emchanic who is buying my Chevy 4x4 frame, sounds almost like it failed due to running to lean. He thinks injector is the cause too.. but if it is.. how the hell do I find the culprit? Injectors range from $75-$185 EACH here... and I would hate to play chicken with that kind of money... Dave hs my damn toosl that I was going to use to check my spark plugs b 4 I went, so I don

t know what they look like.. but if you remember from my old compression test, I had 1 cylinder lower than the others.. still within range.. but less consistent... could it be leaking through a cylinder somehow? worn rings or valves? i swear I can hear a tapping now as if my valves need adjusting.... or maybe I am just looking for chit....

Edited November 8, 2005 by Slick

[Animal]

What about "co2: @15mph allow: 15.03 blew 0.06 @25mph allow 15.10 blew 0.02"? High CO2 is good, low is bad and an indication of poor combustion. Your emissions check may be like ours in that it doesn't pass/fail on this reading, but reports it anyways. The high HC pretty much confirms poor combustion. Since this was at low rpms it could be clogged injectors or weak spark - maybe one of them new plugs ain't gapped right (did you bang #6 around?)

 

You could buy a can of that stuff that guarantees passing the test, but I'm sure you'll want to get it fixed sooner or later.

[vidro]

You know my past post and my relationship with my Pathfinder so interpret this with that in mind.

Most of my knowledge is in carburetor vehicles from the 70's towards the start of Elvis's career.

 

Fuel in oil with a carbureted car is usually a sign of one of the following

 

A hole in the fuel pump diaphragm .

I'm not sure what in a fuel injected Pathfinder equates to a the fuel pump system in a vintage vehicle.

 

Spark not hot enough to burn all the fuel, usually causes a fuel fowled (most likely chicken) spark plug and a miss on the cylinder.

You mentioned she is "running great" so that Nics this one.

 

Hotter plugs would help burn off extra gas along with a hotter spark.

In pre electronic ignition cars swapping the points to a Flame Thrower coil and Petronics system usually helped with hotter spark.

Again don't know about 95 Pathfinders

 

To much fuel being dumped in cylinder to burn.

To much fuel being bumped is usually adjusted by the jetts in the carburetor, I would think in the Pathfinder this is controlled by the computer.

 

That's my 2 cents... probably only worth 1 but with inflation, gots to make a liven

[lgranch]

Most of the additives to pass smog that I have investigated chemically "fix" CO and NO and do nothing for HC. They usually work by masking the CO and NO so that the test can not read them. I do not know how you mask HC. Slick you have been given two conflicting opinions. too lean and too rich. I would vote for too rich, but why? This could be a MAP giving the ECU a bad reading and causing the injectors to push too much fuel. There is an injector seal in teh intake that maybe could cause and air leak. I doubt that a bad injector is going to push too much fuel. Now if you believe the too lean camp then a bad injectors is possible.

 

Sorry I can not be more help

[vidro]

I have heard a couple times about a MAF sensor and cleaning it.

Since my vehicle has over 220,000 it probably needs cleaning, it this is appropriate preventive maintenance.

Where is it located?

and

Should I clean it?

[Slick]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the opinions.

Here is where I'm at. Today (like..in 1/2hr) I am going to take her down to Kragens and have them read the ECU, because I know she is throwing a code and the check engine light doesn't work, I am convinced of this, or she would have passed.

After that I will know more, if no codes come up, I am going to do the folling:

1. make myself a jack n coke

2. Change the spark plugs to NGK's from the Champion truck plugs I WAS using.. which run hot which is why I bought them.... but still..

3. Check all my vaccum lines AGAIN.. I may have missed something my first time around

4. Compression test

5. Move to Oregon if the above 4 don't work!

 

I (as stated above) had cleaned the K & N air filter, and the MAF sensor last week, so they were sparkly clean.

I noticed the guy had my Pathy running a LONG time (a good 20 mins) before he even tested it... he was flapping his gums to his father-in-law while my truck sat there loading up... I think this has a lot to do with it.. it was running a total of about 1/2 hr to 35 mins! I watched him smog the Ford Ranger b 4 me, and that thing ran a total of 10 minutes, and was done in 15. It took him 45 to smog mine.. he did the under hood inspections while she was running, and he did them first.. this could easily have caused the load up (in return higher HC's upon acceleration) and thus failing the test as he probed her then hit the gas and the burn smoke that was coming out the back for the first 15 seconds of that test....

I will continue my investigations, but the computer and new hotter plugs is the first stop today. -study-

Thanks again!!! I'll let y'all know what happens.

[Slick]

**NOTE: even though she blew below the MAX allowed, upon re reading the results, I noticed she was well ABOVE the averages.....

[Revco]

5. Move to Oregon if the above 4 don't work!

That wouldn't be a bad idea anyway. Just don't move to Portland...they're getting too big for their britches...the roads can't support their population. That's why I moved, anyway...was tired of 3-4 hours a day spent in traffic. Washington's always an option, too!

 

Good luck!

[vidro]

Try Texas.

Im not sure there are any smog testing places down here, maybe in Dallas and Austin.

I'm not even sure what SMOG is. For the lonest time I thought it was a shorten phrase for SMashed FrOG. Don't ask or we'll be heading back to the drug thing.

Hell, we don't even have hard top road in some of the towns I'm aquainted with.

[wheel366]

Do you want to fix the problem or path the test? I can't really offer anything to fix it, but if you try putting lots of gas line anti-freeze (ethanol and isopropyl) with a tank that is almost empty you should pass. This comes from my friend who is a chemist. However, once you pass you need to fill up immediately since the anti-freeze is a solvant and is hard on the seals.

 

If I were you, I would try this just to pass then get it fixed.

[Slick]

I actually DO wasnt her running to the best of her ability, and I was sure she was.... and still is in my mind...

As for Texas.. If I wanted to die of the heat.. I would stay in Cali.. I need damper climate and cooler weather... I hate the heat...

WA is an option.. but is further from my family...

I won't be near Portland.. I hate cities.. I am looking just outside Salem....

[wheel366]

Well, here is a link I had at home for a new set of injectors. Not a bad price.

 

$302 for all 6.

 

Five O Motorsports

[Animal]

Except these are rebuilds (note the $10 core each). Saw some for $35 each, which is $210 for 6 (figured I'd save someone the trouble of opening their calc). Don't ask me where, because personally, as long as I have the cash to spend, I'd go with new, so I didn't bother bookmarking.

[Slick]

thanks guys. Yes Wheel, I had founf five-o a couple days ago. I am thinking if I make the guy smog her as he SHOULD have, she will pass no problems... if not... break both his legs.... which sounds way more fun right now for me..... lol

[BigMike]

As for Texas.. If I wanted to die of the heat.. I would stay in Cali.. I need damper climate and cooler weather... I hate the heat...

WTF? 110 degrees is brisk weather, its gets better when summer rolls in full trottle

[Slick]

WTF? 110 degrees is brisk weather, its gets better when summer rolls in full trottle

:oops: *has flashbacks to lsat summer*

[Slick]

ok. so this am I was talking to a work friend while running the Pathy (I had every intention of driving off after starting.. but she caught me) and after running 5 mins I notice the white/blue smoke.. thinkin it's steam (chilly am) we carry on talking.. then I hit the gas.. friend disappears from PS of Pathy in cloud of white n blue smoke.. she chokes on the fumes.... I turn Pathy off and finish conversation...

 

thinkin imma need some injectors.... sssh

[Mr. Pickles]

Try Texas.

Im not sure there are any smog testing places down here, maybe in Dallas and Austin.

I'm not even sure what SMOG is. For the lonest time I thought it was a shorten phrase for SMashed FrOG. Don't ask or we'll be heading back to the drug thing.

Hell, we don't even have hard top road in some of the towns I'm aquainted with.

Of COURSE you haven't heard about an environmental issue. You had GW commanding the ship. If he could track down and corner the elusive smog, he'd try to drill it. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

Anyways, yes Slick, move and join us. Although we have smog checks in much of western WA as well. Regardless, good luck and sorry to post nothing usefull!

[Animal]

...and after running 5 mins I notice the white/blue smoke.

Slick, I'm fairly certain you know blue isn't fuel. Have you replaced your PCV valve? What did the old spark plugs look like (color of deposits)? Maybe that weak cylinder is worse than you think.

[Slick]

Slick, I'm fairly certain you know blue isn't fuel. Have you replaced your PCV valve? What did the old spark plugs look like (color of deposits)? Maybe that weak cylinder is worse than you think.

The smoke was more white than anything.. the plugs were fine when I did the t-belt n stuff 7,000 miles ago... I think I still have a pic of the old plugs.. lemme look..

the smell of gas in the oil and tailpipe lead me to believe there is definitely unburnt fuel getting through my system....

runs like a champ.. and was lovin that fog this am.. had to keep lettin OFF the gas to slow 'er down! :bow:

 

also.. that inconsistent high rpm problem I was having.. it comes n goes still.. not as much but when I stopped to turn after getting off the freeway coming home i noticed they went up to 1000 then slowly back down to 600..

Edited November 12, 2005 by Slick

[Animal]

Third one from the right looks a bit dark, but that could just be the lighting on the photo. Have you run any injector cleaner through and changed the fuel filter?

Also, you can check for a single cylinder problem by pulling one plug wire at a time (old mechanic's trick that has actually made its way into the FSM). If one doesn't change the idle as much as the others, there's something wrong with that cylinder (plug, wire, injector, valve, rings,...).

New injectors will probably help, but may not necessarily be the cause. You could also have the injectors cleaned (I don't know what shops charge these days, but it should be considerably less than new ones) and they can also test the injectors (rate and pattern).

Edited November 12, 2005 by Animal