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are locking hubs worth it for me?


Strato_54
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In my 97 i still have mostly stock everything but am building a build list on my computer for what parts i want when i gradually get into real off roading scene. With that said i still have the stock auto locking hubs. Right now its a pavement princess that isnt too sure on if its a 4x4 or a grocery getter just yet. I am interested in the Warn hubs but i got to thinking and not to sure what the big points of switching them are. Im still learning about most mechanical parts and what not so excuse me for the dumb question. Right now i am running through deep snow and mud here and there but no reall off roading yet since no lift and no where to go yet. What are the benefits of manual locking vs auto locking, and is it worth it to buy them now even though i wont use them much until maybe next year when i actually start thinking of a lift.

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Yeah manual hubs are actually of no benefit off-road. The benefit of having them is that they dramatically increase the life of CVs if you’re (suspension) lifted since the CVs won’t be spinning unless you engage the hubs manually.

 

The “auto” hubs aren’t automatic, they’re just always engaged.

 

And like Pathydude said, you save gas because the rotating mass and rolling resistance of the CVs, front differential, front propeller shaft, and front drive components in the transfer case are all disconnected from the front wheels.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, PathyDude17 said:

The mpg savings eventually pays for themselves, and you don’t have to go all the way up to warn hubs, Mike marker 435’s are $100 and usually 15-20% on advance auto

alright good to know. but the only issue with buying them on advance is that im in canada so we dont have that store here lol. id probably have to look at napa or lordco but non the less great argument for getting them i guess

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30 minutes ago, onespiritbrain said:

Yeah manual hubs are actually of no benefit off-road. The benefit of having them is that they dramatically increase the life of CVs if you’re (suspension) lifted since the CVs won’t be spinning unless you engage the hubs manually.

 

The “auto” hubs aren’t automatic, they’re just always engaged.

 

And like Pathydude said, you save gas because the rotating mass and rolling resistance of the CVs, front differential, front propeller shaft, and front drive components in the transfer case are all disconnected from the front wheels.

 

 

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i had a feeling they were always engaged but never really minded to looking them up or plaything around with them. and by the sounds of what you said theyre only really needed when i get a lift kit going and bigger wheels so the trade of for mpg is the same

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1 hour ago, onespiritbrain said:

Yeah manual hubs are actually of no benefit off-road.

If something in the front drivetrain were to break or get damaged, being able to disconnect the front drivetrain at the hubs is very useful. It’s not a likely or common occurrence, but it is a possibility. And manual hubs make it easier to run an auto locker in the front 

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I think all R50s came with drive flanges. They mechanically connect the wheels to the front drivetrain. This also let you engage 4wd while moving.

 

In addition to what everyone said, manual unlocked hubs make your steering noticeably lighter. And all these improvements occur regardless if you are lifted or not. But lifting increases the wear on the CV joints more, so that's when most people put them on.

 

Auto locking hubs are a thing. Warn among others make them. They were offered on the previous gen Pathfinder. My old Scout had them.

 

The drawback to them is you have to stop before shifting into 4wd. And the most common version lock only in forward. They unlock in reverse. So if you have to back out, you have to jump out and engage them.

 

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With the R50, no advantage when 4 wheeling unless you have a locked front diff. The R50 uses drive flanges so a very solid and absolutely reliable connection between the axle an wheel hub. As has been said earlier, the advantage is when in 2WD, it saves parasitic drag and wear in the front drivetrain.

 

Older trucks like my WD21 had auto locking hubs that by their design, are less useful and reliable when off pavement so are a good upgrade. I have actually considered getting a pair of R50 flanges to carry in my truck as emergency spares for if I manage to break a locking hub. 

 

The auto hubs do lock in both forward and reverse, but there is a short period where they unlock when changing between forward and back. Example, when 4wd is selected, the front drive turns and engages the hubs when the axles turn in either forward or reverse. The hubs then remain locked until you change direction. Then the hubs unlock and then relock. Normally not a problem, but if you are stuck and try rocking to unstick yourself, there is the lag with the front. That tends to cause the rear to dig in and make the stuck worse. Happened to me a couple times. Also, in higher throttle applications and a front wheel lifts, like climbing a hill if you let off the throttle while a wheel is in the air the momentum of the spinning wheel will cause the hub to unlock when the wheel is turning faster than the axle. Then if you get back on to the throttle, the hub will relock violently and makes a horrible bang and can cause the hub to break. 

Had both types of events happen to me with my truck back when she was new to me a few times, so I was motivated to understand how the hubs work. Also made me find the money for my Warns. Problems you R50 folks won't have unless you replace the drive flanges with the automatic hubs found on the WD21s and V6 D21 trucks. 

Edited by Mr_Reverse
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27 minutes ago, colinnwn said:

I think all R50s came with drive flanges. They mechanically connect the wheels to the front drivetrain. This also let you engage 4wd while moving.

 

In addition to what everyone said, manual unlocked hubs make your steering noticeably lighter. And all these improvements occur regardless if you are lifted or not. But lifting increases the wear on the CV joints more, so that's when most people put them on.

 

Auto locking hubs are a thing. Warn among others make them. They were offered on the previous gen Pathfinder. My old Scout had them.

 

The drawback to them is you have to stop before shifting into 4wd. And the most common version lock only in forward. They unlock in reverse. So if you have to back out, you have to jump out and engage them.

 

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i didnt think it would make the steering lighter but i guess that makes sense since theres less parts moving in a way. And backing up to disengage them is probably not that big of a deal depending on what the area is like 

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21 minutes ago, Mr_Reverse said:

With the R50, no advantage when 4 wheeling unless you have a locked front diff. The R50 uses drive flanges so a very solid and absolutely reliable connection between the axle an wheel hub. As has been said earlier, the advantage is when in 2WD, it saves parasitic drag and wear in the front drivetrain.

 

Older trucks like my WD21 had auto locking hubs that by their design, are less useful and reliable when off pavement so are a good upgrade. I have actually considered getting a pair of R50 flanges to carry in my truck as emergency spares for if I manage to break a locking hub. 

yeah having less wear when uneeded in the front is probably a good thing when you have that option. and i guess it wouldnt hurt much if i left the hubs engaged if i did get manual locking since it would be the same as having the stock ones. plus i dont have a locked front diff so it probably wouldnt matter 

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Yep. With my old truck, if there is snow on the ground, I will usually lock the hubs before leaving the driveway and just shift the transfer case into 4WD when needed. Unless there is damage in the drivetrain, you won't have any issues. 

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54 minutes ago, Mr_Reverse said:

Yep. With my old truck, if there is snow on the ground, I will usually lock the hubs before leaving the driveway and just shift the transfer case into 4WD when needed. Unless there is damage in the drivetrain, you won't have any issues. 

So far I see no down side other then having to get out and engage them 

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The Warn Lockomatics I had in my Scout definitely didn't lock in reverse. I had to get out in cold mud several times to lock them. Researching to see if my memory was totally faulty, I see they should have locked, but it is a common failure condition to not. This was 25 years ago, and I'm sure they weren't properly maintained. Some really old auto lock hubs had one way sprag clutches, but most have bidirectional locking roller bearings.

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IMO, installation of manual hubs is not one of the first things of importance when spending money on upgrades for a stock vehicle. Save the hundred or so dollars and put it to use elsewhere, such as better tires, recovery gear, air compressor, automatic tire deflators, or better camping gear. You may save some money on gas by installing manual hubs, but unless you drive A LOT, it'll take several years to break even on the gas savings. I would recommend installing hubs when you decide to lift it, and factor in the cost of the hubs with the suspension components when you save up enough money. It'll reduce wear on the CV boots.

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57 minutes ago, MTGunner said:

Will Mile Marker 435 hubs fit my 2000 Pathfinder? 

from my research from last night yes they will the chart on their site says it firs the 90-01 pathfinders. dont quote me on that but thats what i saw last night looking around

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3 hours ago, XPLORx4 said:

IMO, installation of manual hubs is not one of the first things of importance when spending money on upgrades for a stock vehicle. Save the hundred or so dollars and put it to use elsewhere, such as better tires, recovery gear, air compressor, automatic tire deflators, or better camping gear. You may save some money on gas by installing manual hubs, but unless you drive A LOT, it'll take several years to break even on the gas savings. I would recommend installing hubs when you decide to lift it, and factor in the cost of the hubs with the suspension components when you save up enough money. It'll reduce wear on the CV boots.

well ill be mainly using my pathy to drive to work and school everyday and then here and there to the store when i need. I was thinking of an air compressor like a viair light duty kit or something along those lines and ive got decent tires. Theyre a little small but theyre BFG 235/75 KO and theyre practically brand new. Obviously im not going to spend money on tires when these are barely used at all but for now theyre pretty right on. And camping gear i never thought much about actually. ive got good sleeping bags and an alright tent but i dont have many chairs. I have a bunch o tear drop trailers since thats what we build at my company but i dont have a hitch for my pathy. i need one of those height adjustable ones since i built my bumper and hitch. I guess youre right though with waiting for a lift but even then im sold on getting manuals 

 

EDIT: even too if i were to get hubs i have no where to get them since i live in a small town in southern interior BC so it would either be a road trip to the next bigger town or buy warn premiums on Napa or Mile Markers on amazon

Edited by Strato_54
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I've got Mile Markers on my '93. McBay Performance (online) had the best price at the time. No complaints mechanically but their chrome sucks, most of it has blistered and peeled off the aluminum trim rings. The dials still look alright. I had to modify the hubcaps a little to clear them, I don't remember if the R50 wheels require similar treatment. They were a huge upgrade from my crap-tastic worn-out auto hubs. Your drive flanges are at least reliable, so you may not get as much benefit for the money as I did. Whether it's worth it depends on how you use the truck and what other mods you're planning to do in the future.

 

And yeah, the only real downside is having to get out to engage them. I leave mine locked all winter, so this is only a problem if I get into something I didn't expect during the other half of the year. Even then it's not really an issue unless you're bogged to the frame in pig crap and the pigs have you surrounded.

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I'm with XPLORx4 on their necessity.  The improvement is fairly parasitic, and there are better things to put the money towards.  If you plan to lift it, or install a Lokka, then yes, consider factoring that into the budget.  Engaging the hubs is fairly trivial...maybe 15s tops.  I'm sure there are some nasty weather conditions to step out into, but it's a pretty minor inconvenience if you bought them to save on other items.

 

Now, that all said...I just upgraded to Warns today.  I don't think they're all that better than the Rugged Ridge ones they replaced, to be honest (I'll do a small write-up in the Product Review forum).  The RR's were on the truck when I bought it used.  The Warns were part of a trade for a re-packed LSD, and since I just switched to QX4 wheels today, now I can actually run them.  (BTW, the reason the Warns and MM's aren't spec'd for 01+ Pathfinders is because the OE wheel won't clear them...RR's fit, though.)

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The 2001 SE wheels fit Warns fine. You just leave the middle plastic hub cover off. I've read on here that the more modern looking wheels that came a year or two after that have to be ground down a bit in the center outboard bore to where it's hub cover would no longer work.

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...or whenever the wheels with the smaller inner cap came in (02+?).  Rephrased, they weren't spec'd for the wheels with smaller center caps because the unaltered wheel won't fit them.  Doubt anyone is willing to do that work on all their wheels.

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48 minutes ago, hawairish said:

@Strato_54 FWIW, I just keyed this up...given your use and hesitation, if you're considering hubs at all still, the RR-style hubs are a reasonable alternative.

 

 

 

Haven't decided on what ones yet but as of right now the mile markers are probably gonna be me pick. I have heard though out side of here that the chrome sucks and it peeks but in reality ill probably take them apart and paint them myself if they do that. I am very happy with all the info that has come out of this thread and now its just a matter of when i decide i want them . but coming in to this i was pretty on the fence but now im all for them

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I had a set of rugged ridge knock offs from eBay on my pathfinder. I don’t know what others would say about the durability of the construction, but if you’re mostly on the road then I think they would work well. They worked well for me at least. Plus for the money, I thought they were a great deal. I never personally had a problem with chrome peeling but I also only had them for about 4 months. My wheels also limited my choice of manual hubs considering I wanted to keep my stock rim and most others would not fit through the center of the wheel.

 

https://www.ebay.com/p/27020837095

 

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