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Are these Factory Recovery Points?


AlabamaDan
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I'm sure these were for tying down the QX4 for transport, but are they suitable for recovery points?  If I get stuck, could I hook a strap and D-Shackle to these for recovery and be pulled out?

 

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Technically only one of them (don't remember which) is rated as a tow point, but even so I wouldn't use them unless absolutely necessary.  Not worth tweaking the vehicle if you don't have to.  If you're burried to the rockers in mud I wouldn't even think about it, but if you're just slipping on a slick hill and need a winch up it would probably hold.

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Yes, those are the factory recovery points.  I absolutely would pull a  fully stuck mud bound Pathfinder using them. 

That's what they are for.

That's what they are engineered to do.

Nissan didn't put them there for decoration. Ever look at a freight tie down on a car? Much weaker and designed to only be pulled at a downward angle, and typically wont clear the bumpers (front or rear) 

 

On the R50 - at least the passanger one has a significant wrap around bracket that is bolted multiple times laterally into the front of the boxed section of the "frame". This is a key structural member that also takes the entire bumper load.

 

These trucks are unibody. If you can't pull there, you can't pull them anywhere. Tow away.

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2 hours ago, mjotrainbrain said:

Technically only one of them (don't remember which) is rated as a tow point, but even so I wouldn't use them unless absolutely necessary.  Not worth tweaking the vehicle if you don't have to.  If you're burried to the rockers in mud I wouldn't even think about it, but if you're just slipping on a slick hill and need a winch up it would probably hold.

 

1 hour ago, Inyourface1650 said:

Yes, those are the factory recovery points.  I absolutely would pull a  fully stuck mud bound Pathfinder using them. 

That's what they are for.

That's what they are engineered to do.

Nissan didn't put them there for decoration. Ever look at a freight tie down on a car? Much weaker and designed to only be pulled at a downward angle, and typically wont clear the bumpers (front or rear) 

 

On the R50 - at least the passanger one has a significant wrap around bracket that is bolted multiple times laterally into the front of the boxed section of the "frame". This is a key structural member that also takes the entire bumper load.

 

These trucks are unibody. If you can't pull there, you can't pull them anywhere. Tow away.

 

While I share Inyourface1650's enthusiasm to some degree, mjotrainbrain is correct.  Per the Owner's Manual, only the RH/pass side is "rated" for towing, while the LH is for tie-down use only.  

 

Now, at least on my truck, both left and right tow points are almost identical in shape and mounting (same number of bolts per side), so I don't know why one side would be inherently weaker than the other, though I think I've seen some older models have 4 bolts on the RH side and only 3 on the LH (mine is 3 per side).  I think both points would be fine for static pulls (winch, tow strap), but I'd be cautious about using dynamic pulls (kinetic, snatch, recovery straps, etc.) on them.  The hooks themselves are fine.  The radiator crossmember is boxed in to resist pushing/impact (though, I'll disagree on the part about the area taking the bumper load...the bumper brackets are flimsy and designed to collapse, and are mounted to a flimsy area well above the tow points), but it's the nuts welded to thin sheet metal that are weakest links.  Ask @TowndawgR50; they can shift on a recovery pull.

 

"Recovery" can refer to static and dynamic pulls.  There's obviously some situational awareness for recovery efforts, but personally I'd limit their usage to only slow static pulls.

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Ask [mention=37543]TowndawgR50[/mention]; they can shift on a recovery pull. “Recovery" can refer to static and dynamic pulls.  There's obviously some situational awareness for recovery efforts, but personally I'd limit their usage to only slow static pulls.

There’s a reason I’m only doing a bumper that’s a collaboration between@hawairish &@TownDawgR50.

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Can you recover from those points? Yes, but gently and only in mild recovery situations due to loss of traction. Stuck in mud, snow, sand or anything like that while using an OEM tow point can cause failure of the flimsy layered sheet metal that the nuts are welded to.  In my opinion, I wouldn't use ANYTHING OEM for recovery except a rear mounted hitch with a recovery ring.

I was recovered via those points and the driver side mounts torqued forward. It was a snatch style grab by a Suzuki Samurai with about 8ft of lead on a bubba rope and soft shackels when I was buried up to my bumper in snow. 

 

7KbryEj.jpg

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I have done some serious double line pulls with those things. I was in mud though and if you’re jammed on a rock or something you might end up breaking them.

Also winching and someone jerking on a strap at 15mph are two different things and those things would definitely not hold up to the latter.

The points at the back can take some serious force as well. I got stuck in a bottomless mud/sand pit with my spare jammed up against a ledge and a gigantic John Deer tractor that was literally 5 times bigger than my car pulled me out with one of those tow points. It did mangle it badly and we had to beat the hook back out but it didn’t break anything... hmmm... as I’m typing this I am reminded that my car doesn’t sit right when looking from behind... maybe it did break or bend something.


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33 minutes ago, onespiritbrain said:

The points at the back can take some serious force as well. ...  It did mangle it badly and we had to beat the hook back out but it didn’t break anything... 

 

Just curious, but what do the rear hook points look like?  I don’t think I’ve seen them before. Are they removed when a hitch is installed?

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5 minutes ago, hawairish said:

 

Just curious, but what do the rear hook points look like?  I don’t think I’ve seen them before. Are they removed when a hitch is installed?

Yes, the tow hitch utilizes some of the holes that the rear tow point would. Had to remove mine when installed my hitch. Just kind of an odd shaped flat-ish plate with an oval cit into it, held on by 2 or 3 bolts. Not something I'd want to use as a recovery point unless there was no other option.

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39 minutes ago, hawairish said:

 

Just curious, but what do the rear hook points look like?  I don’t think I’ve seen them before. Are they removed when a hitch is installed?

There was something there when I installed the hitch on mine... I just don't remember what it looked like. Now I'm curious!

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So this had me thinking about what was there as well. Couldn't remember for the life of me and it wasn't that long ago so I dug through some old photos and found these pics of my rear hooks before I got my tow bar. Now I just need to remember where I put them

 

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Seems like we lack a consensus here.  Some folks say absolutely for a slow static pull and others say light duty only.  It appears no one likes the snatch recovery with them.  Let me ask this question, if they are securely bolted to the unibody wouldn't that be how a big custom bumper is mounted as well?

 

I was thinking about the unibody just being welded nuts in a tube.  What if we instead drilled a hole all the way through the box, inserted a small pipe as a sleeve, and then a solid bolt all the way through?  Follow me?

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8 hours ago, AlabamaDan said:

Seems like we lack a consensus here.  Some folks say absolutely for a slow static pull and others say light duty only.  It appears no one likes the snatch recovery with them.  Let me ask this question, if they are securely bolted to the unibody wouldn't that be how a big custom bumper is mounted as well?

 

I was thinking about the unibody just being welded nuts in a tube.  What if we instead drilled a hole all the way through the box, inserted a small pipe as a sleeve, and then a solid bolt all the way through?  Follow me?

 

An aftermarket or custom bumper can distribute load across both recovery point areas somewhat.  To be more effective, though, they also need to increase the number of attachment points and the overall contact area.

 

I don't recall if I had a good picture of the nut-strip I'm using for my bumper brackets, but it slips into the chassis tube and sandwiches the tube wall using 1/2" bolts.  The problem with putting a bolt all the way through the tube, even with a sleeve, is that it greatly increases pressure at the attachment point and under-utilizes part of your bracket; it's not distributing pressure enough.  Your pipe sleeve would have to be a fat round spacer to the exact width of the tube to be the most effective (but a difficult task since the tube opening is smaller and not uniform). 

 

Two analogies to hammer the point:

  1. Imagine two magnets on a piece of steel.  One is 1" diameter, and the other 3" diameter.  Which is easier to slide around?  The 3" magnet has about 9x more surface area, and consequently harder to move.  This scenario represents area distribution.
  2. Imagine holding a piece of paper flat between your palms and someone trying to pull the paper out.  You can hold it pretty tight.  Instead of palms, try just between all 5 fingertips fanned out (er, 4-6 fingers for some folks out there); still a decent grip, but you've eliminated contact area from the palms.  Now do a palm and just one finger.  The paper flops over and can be pulled from your grip very easily.  Your palm adds very little to clamping strength, literally reduced to the contact area of your fingertip, and basically the equivalent of holding it with just two finger tips.  This scenario represents a bolt-through scenario.

Notably, many of the surfaces on the truck are irregular as you expand across multiple attachment points, so you can only gain so much actual contact area.  I'd guesstimate my brackets have added about 1/2 sq ft in contact area, and are currently using 9 attachment points per bracket (I can increase these further if I were to weld my brackets to the OE recovery hooks).

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Have done some reasonably aggressive 4wding in my Terrano on 31s (a bit out of its depth) and had to be both winched and snatched from the front several times. The first recovery I was stuck at a slight angle around a corner. All pulls were done using a 4 m 4000 kg rated distribution strop between the two front eyes with rated bow shackles, and then a 9 m 8000 kg rated snatch strap for the snatch. 

The first snatch, there was a nasty "bang" sound from the front end... I thought something had broken but it looked ok at the time. At home, I noticed that my lower rad support had buckled very slightly in the middle at the front, and that the two points were now slightly bowed in. I reckon if I hadn't used a distribution strap I would have pulled one of the points off.

However, they still held up to another few tows and one winch. 

 

At the rear I have a bolt-on recovery hook, designed to open out if overstressed, on the towbar.

 

I plan to fit an XROX winch bar, which has mounts for two rated recovery hooks same I have on the back, on either side of the winch cradle.

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13 hours ago, KiwiTerrano said:

Have done some reasonably aggressive 4wding in my Terrano on 31s (a bit out of its depth) and had to be both winched and snatched from the front several times. The first recovery I was stuck at a slight angle around a corner. All pulls were done using a 4 m 4000 kg rated distribution strop between the two front eyes with rated bow shackles, and then a 9 m 8000 kg rated snatch strap for the snatch. 

The first snatch, there was a nasty "bang" sound from the front end... I thought something had broken but it looked ok at the time. At home, I noticed that my lower rad support had buckled very slightly in the middle at the front, and that the two points were now slightly bowed in. I reckon if I hadn't used a distribution strap I would have pulled one of the points off.

However, they still held up to another few tows and one winch. 

 

At the rear I have a bolt-on recovery hook, designed to open out if overstressed, on the towbar.

 

I plan to fit an XROX winch bar, which has mounts for two rated recovery hooks same I have on the back, on either side of the winch cradle.

 

Great insight, but bummer on the damage!  As soon as you had mentioned the distribution strap, that's exactly what came to my mind...the lower support buckling.  You absolutely had the right idea to distribute the load, but the problem is that so many spots on unibodies are simply made from thinner steel that is layered or laminated and not fully boxed/welded, and it's function is to be rigid, but also to collapse upon impact.  The few spots that must bear excessive loads constantly (like the subframe, strut towers, and spring perches) use thicker gauge stamped steel.

 

Be sure to post up some pics of that XROX bar if you get it.  I think they're great looking bumpers, wish we had them here.

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6 hours ago, hawairish said:

 

Great insight, but bummer on the damage!  As soon as you had mentioned the distribution strap, that's exactly what came to my mind...the lower support buckling.  You absolutely had the right idea to distribute the load, but the problem is that so many spots on unibodies are simply made from thinner steel that is layered or laminated and not fully boxed/welded, and it's function is to be rigid, but also to collapse upon impact.  The few spots that must bear excessive loads constantly (like the subframe, strut towers, and spring perches) use thicker gauge stamped steel.

 

Be sure to post up some pics of that XROX bar if you get it.  I think they're great looking bumpers, wish we had them here.

Will do. Hopefully will have it early Jan sometime. I like the XROX design because it will transfer the load from the recovery points basically straight into the fake chassis rails, rather than being attached to the subframe/lower rad support like the factory points which also sit a bit low for when you bury the nose in mud... Ask me how I know haha

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