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Increase Fuel Tank Capacity?


AlabamaDan
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Is there any way to increase the capacity of the OEM fuel tank?  I know on Jeep Cherokees the tank is actually 20gal with a vent tube that limits it to 15gal.  Modify that tube in the tank and many get 20+ gallons in their tank.  Since our MPG is so poor, it seems like we need a larger capacity tank to extend our range between refueling.

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There is a company that makes an extended range tank that goes where the spare is.  Not really what it seems like you're looking for, but it's the only thing on the subject I've heard about in three years.  I'll try to hunt down the link to it.

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Most people just carry either a Jerry can or even “lawnmower” plastic cans on their roof.

To be honest, I’ve never found I’ve needed one (though I’ve had them just in case on occasion) & I’ve spent a handful of days off-road in Big Bend NP, White Rim in Canyonlands NP & down the West coast of Vancouver Island. I’ve traversed almost all the CO passes & been very remote throughout the West. Just make sure to top off before you start your backcountry travel.

I doubt I ever get below 15mpg & usually more like 20mpg highway though I usually calculate need using 17 or 18. Compared to all the V8s I’ve been with, I’m usually the mileage champion. Only those with 4 bangers seem to do better.

Once your wheel no longer fits under the rear, it frees that space up, however, I think I’d put onboard water there before gas (though I suppose splitting the space up is a reasonable compromise).

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Wow, that’s 25 gallons. Nice find. I can definitely see needing that in Australia. I know there’s a company that makes water bladders that go between the interior trim & exterior sheet metal in the cargo area of Patrols. I’ve always wondered if there was a version for the R50-I just doubted it as there’s so little aftermarket specific for us (Figured if there was one that fit a 3rdGen T4R it might work for us)
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Man @RainGoat, I wish I was getting 15 mpg.  I took my lawnmower can with me over the weekend (it's such a POS, too) and got somewhat close to needing it.  But then again, I was pushing my tank to the distance, noting that my idiot light comes on with about 5 gallons left (but presumably less).

 

Aussies have had two extended fuel tank options that I'm aware of.  One is the Long Ranger, which was a 95L (25gal) that installed where the undermount spare tire is.  Not sure if ARB partnered with or acquired LR, but that's what ARB sells.  The other was from Brown Davis, which was a 125L (33gal) tank replacement.  My buddy was looking to import some years ago, and they were not cheap ($1K sounds about right), all things considered.

 

After thinking about my own refueling in needs, I really like the idea of a small aux cell where the spare tire was.  I might mock up some dimensions and request a quote from Boyd Welding (http://www.boydwelding.com/) who seem to have the process down, though I'd expect a custom job to be around $500-$600.  Some time ago, I saw a rather clever roof-rack setup that was comprised of a marine-grade under-seat fuel tank and an external fuel pump; I'll have to find my bookmark for it.  After spending maybe 10 minutes trying to refill my tank with the unused fuel, and a sore thumb holding some stupid EPA-compliant spout open, a gravity- or pump-assisted system seems like the way to go.

 

Edited by hawairish
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Wow.  Thanks guys.   Those extended range tanks are cool, but for the money I guess I'll just toss a plastic can on the roof.  I can buy a lot of those for 1k!  In the XJ it's just a matter of bending the vent tube upward - takes time but little money.  I haven't relocated my spare yet so I don't have the space either.

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h) I wish I was getting 15 mpg. 

 

R) I’m guessing it’s the lift & tires plus AZ has high Hwy speeds & massive elevation changes.

 

I had my basket mounted below my load bars for ease of using the bars & decreased wind resistance. I’ve noted that throwing a Plano box up there, or even a 5g Sceptre on its side, drops off an mpg or two depending on the trips average speed. While I love your bumper, it can’t be helping your wind resistance. I think plating would ultimately add back an mpg there as well.

 

I live in 2 worlds now-my R50 has become a local only rig but I still have to consider my Mom’s T4R which is a long distance tourer-plus she can’t reasonably manage more than 3g at a time. As an interim solution, I put two 2.25g interlocking Rotopax laying flat, longitudinally, on her rack for her last trip. Those Rotopax are crazy expensive though. In the past, we used 3 3g lawnmower cans that travelled sealed in 5g type buckets inside until she got to UT & then filled them up, side by side, pointing backwards, across the back of her rack, while in the backcountry. When done, we’d use them up, let them evaporate out & reseal for long distance travel. I don’t recommend this & it’s why I bought her the Rotopax, but her old Jeep Grand Cherokee could get down into single digits mpg, especially if the rack was loaded. And we sometimes left pavement on 100-300mi trips from places as remote as Hanksville, UT. Of course, the fact that she can do two 8-15K trips a year plays into this heavily.

 

One of the biggest reasons we went with the T4R over a GX470 was that the T4R was getting 18mpg, going uphill, at 83mph on our last trip, whereas the GX was more like 10-14mpg in normal conditions (I’ve heard 8-10mpg from Overlanders despite it being a small block V8). I hear people complaining about the T4R all the time, but I’ve been wondering if it’s a generational thing where people are used to 30mpg or more in their cars now, whereas I grew up with 20’s being awesome. Of course that was also when trucks were heavy with big block V8s to pull them around. Plus, I don’t think I’ve ever owned a car that got better than 26mpg. The fact my loaded Path could pull off 21mpg cross country used to blow me away.

 

 

h) Aussies have had two extended fuel tank options that I'm aware of.  One is the Long Ranger, which was a 95L (25gal) that installed where the undermount spare tire is.  Not sure if ARB partnered with or acquired LR, but that's what ARB sells.  The other was from Brown Davis, which was a 125L (33gal) tank replacement. 

 

R) Man, those are big tanks.

 

 

h) After thinking about my own refueling in needs, I really like the idea of a small aux cell where the spare tire was.  I might mock up some dimensions and request a quote from Boyd Welding (http://www.boydwelding.com/) who seem to have the process down, though I'd expect a custom job to be around $500-$600. 

 

R)[mention=37543]TowndawgR50[/mention] has been considering putting water in that spot. For you, I’d divvy it up between water & fuel. I can’t see how you’ll reasonably ever need 25-33g of extra fuel, however, water, especially in the Sonoran & Mojave, that’s a different story. 10g of fuel & 10-15g of water would be fantastic-plus it would lower your center of gravity & take some weight off the swingate.

 

 

h) I saw a rather clever roof-rack setup that was comprised of a marine-grade under-seat fuel tank and an external fuel pump.

 

R) I’ve seen that too. Just having the low profile marine tanks is good for mileage. They’re fairly inexpensive but transferring the gas out is a pain. Personally, I’ve wondered in tge past if a cheapo solution wouldn’t be to just put a cheap plastic marine tank underneath but it would take more ingenuity than I have to design a manual or electric pump to fill & drain it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My MPG was pretty shoddy before the bumpers, and I don't think they've worsened the numbers much.  I think the gearing change lowered the numbers some, but part of me thinks it's really boiled down to a clogged PCV valve and O2 sensors, which I've been dragging my feet on the repairs.  One got replaced a few months ago, and I've had another O2 code that I've just kept clearing because I swear the code has programmatic instructions to just dump fuel in the cylinders.  On the highway stretches to and from the trails last weekend, I ran some fuel system treatment through two tanks and haven't seen the code since.

 

Funny you mention the split fuel/water tank(s) where the undermount spare was.  I was just telling TownDawg that's the real direction I'd want to go the other day.  I don't need or want that much reserve fuel, just enough (5-10gal) to get out of a pinch.  I do want water storage, too.  I also want some other storage there (I'd love to make a larger storage tub where the existing one is, if I could reasonably replace the crossmember there).  The problem with using that location for fuel, though, is provisions for filling...transferring is probably less of a problem, but a problem nonetheless.  The thought of just having an undermount tray/rack for carrying two jerry/Scepter cans on their side has also crossed my mind.  In the end, I may just modify my tire carrier a little to hold a can and be done with it.

Edited by hawairish
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@hawairish I agree on all accounts regarding fuel, water & storage. As per my routine, I'll happily defer to the solutions spawned by you &[mention=37543]TowndawgR50[/mention]. More storage is always better. Any fuel doesn't really need easy accessabilty for me. I'd like it as insurance, but I don't expect to ever need it. As for water - well, more is always better. As you particulary know, being a desert dweller, water is life. Uses: drinking, refilling other travelers supply, radiator refill, fire extinguishing, dishes, rinsing gear, showers. The dream would be 10-15g with a heat exchanger or water heater for onboard hot water. I've never regretted having water & I've wished I had more many times. Over the years, water is the thing I have repeatedly given to others on the trail.

 

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After mentioning it, I think I will make a basket that will hold two jerry cans where the spare was, and will use the OE hoist to raise and lower it.

 

Yeah, water is life.  I'm pretty frugal about its usage, too, and I usually end up bringing a lot home (case in point, I still had maybe 5 gallons of the 7 I took for the 3-day trip).  Of course, it's supplemented by other drinks.  I have an idea for on-demand hot water using a 12v water pump and 12v/300w heater element, but at that current draw, I may still need the engine running.

 

Going back to the aux fuel discussion for a moment, I remembered another possible option, but it requires having a spare tire carrier and possibly some modification.  AEV and Titan have spare tire carriers for Jeeps that mount between the carrier and the tire.  AEVs are meant specifically for their aftermarket carriers, but the Titan are meant for stock Wrangler carriers.  I don't think it'd be to bad to adapt one of those...but at $500 for 10gal, I'd pass.  If I'm gonna pay that much for something, it probably won't be made of plastic.  Titan also makes a fuel cell for full-sized trucks that mounts where the undermount spare is...$1700 for 30 gal, but it's also a complete kit (filler door, neck, pump, lines, etc.).  Very cool product, but I think I'd sooner just strap an OE fuel tank to the roof.

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Here's a dumb idea. The stock tank is flat-bottomed. The pump sock sits above that bottom, so it sucks air long before the tank is truly empty. Seems to me you could cut a hole below where the pump sits, and weld on a small sump just deep enough to submerge the sock in, and then extend the pickup accordingly. You'd have to mod the skid plate a little bit too, but provided the sump wasn't more than a few inches deep, I don't imagine it would catch on anything you wouldn't have banged the skid on before. I don't know how much capacity this would get you (I want to say it would "add" three or four gallons to a WD21 tank, plus the volume of the sump) but it sure as hell wouldn't cost $1700 or even $500.

Or, speaking of just strapping an OE fuel tank to the roof, I know there's a fair bit of empty space under the floors in my WD21, and I think that's where the tank in a D21 would mount. If the R50 has similar space, is there room for a Fronty tank down there? The valving to switch between tanks may be difficult/expensive if you do it that way; I looked into it briefly when trying to sort the fuel system in my dad's dual-tank F150 and ended up simplifying to single-tank to eliminate one more thing to fail (and because the Ford part was expensive).

 

On 10/12/2018 at 5:19 PM, hawairish said:

I have an idea for on-demand hot water using a 12v water pump and 12v/300w heater element, but at that current draw, I may still need the engine running.

 

A while back I messed with trying to make a washer fluid heater for cutting through window frost in the winter and figured out that if would take a whole awful lot of power to do much of anything, even for something fairly low-volume like wiper fluid. The pre-made systems I found had direct lines to the battery. Assuming the engine was up to temp when you wanted hot water, I'd be curious to see if a water-to-air intercooler or something along those lines could be repurposed to transfer heat from the coolant to your hot tap.

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There are gobs of heat exchangers out there & the price has dropped dramatically from what it was 10-15 years ago but still about $400-$600 once you add up all the supplies. There are some pretty good threads on it in some of the forums (ExPo/Overland Bound/T4R.org). It can & has been done but looked like a fair amount of expense & definite work.

 

A hot shower would be awesome & they’re putting them on some of the off-road trailers using things like this CAMPLUX ENJOY OUTDOOR LIFE Pro BD158 1.58GPM Propane Tankless Gas Water Heater (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B073F1PVHN/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_9?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1). I just have alot on my ToDo List before addressing that issue.

 

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@Slartibartfast The fuel tank skid rides a bit close to the tank, and while not terrible low, is susceptible to damage.  I've got some scrapes on mine at least.  However, I like the idea of some other open space, but I think our under-seat space is cluttered with all sorts of heat shields and other junk, like a massive muffler.  Still, I was think that maybe some barb on the side of the tank might be a decent way to have something gravity-feed into the tank.  Still, getting a filler in there is the pain.  On LandCruisers that had factory aux tanks, there was a single filler that had a knob-activated splitter just below the neck:

 

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If only we had something like that...

 

As for the water heater...I think the trick (at least for my application) is to have low water flow (maybe 1 GPM?) and make the pipe where the element is as narrow as reasonable.  I like the heat exchangers, but the cost is too high.  I like the portable propane tank ones, too, but I don't really need shower-quality water and I no longer bring a large propane tank with me.  Coleman used to have a good one, but it's been replaced by a poor-review unit.  Sometimes I think I just need to get a 1000W inverter and bring her Keurig...wife gets her coffee, kids get hot chocolate, I get hot water. 

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Hmm. How much air space is there between the tank and the floor? I wonder if you could section it and basically raise the roof of the whole thing. Probably a lot of welding for the small amount of capacity it would add, though.

 

That's quite the splitter mechanism! My '59 Triumph has a knob for a reserve tank, but I'm pretty sure it's basically just a tray inside of the main tank. Fuel goes down the filler, fills the reserve, overflows into the main tank, and then when you run out of gas, you twist the knob to access the fuel in the tray. (It's almost like they expected the gas gauge to fail.) I'll bet the same idea could be adapted for a true reserve tank, provided the tank was between the filler and the main tank in terms of height. That's the rub, of course; I'm guessing you don't want a gas tank in the rear quarter panel.

If all you're heating water for is a cup of hot something in the morning, I'd just get a 12v kettle. Should do the job and should be a whole lot easier to clean out than something hard-mounted.

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So it doesn't sound like we can mod the OEM tank to hold more and buying a larger capacity tank is too expensive.  How about mounting a fuel cell on the roof rack and using a small hose to gravity feed fuel from the roof to the refill the tank?

 

https://www.amazon.com/10-Gallon-Aluminum-Street-Racing-Sender/dp/B00ZJY5J8U/ref=sr_1_14?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1539578749&sr=1-14&keywords=black+fuel+tank

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If you are willing to do the work and make it safe for OTHERS on the road try it out. But you might want to rethink your tank selection
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