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Buyer's guide and/or things to look for or avoid?


pndubisk
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Hi :)

 

I'm currently shopping for an R50 with the VQ35 to use as my camping rig and possibly "2nd vehicle". I'm looking to spend around $3k, bottom market but they are out there. Just as a little background, I'm a car guy, a little less familiar with trucks. I have a daily driver, tow rig, track car, and a project car. Do my own everything, some of these I built from the ground up some I bought and put my touch on. All budget minded and took me about 15yr to collect. So while I can certainly shop on my own for a used r50 a little knowledge about the specifics of the platform would be very highly appreciated.

 

My first big question(s) are what are the trouble areas for rust? Anything mechanically I should avoid? For instance IACV and ECM issues... I've seen a few ads needed these. IACV from Hitachi looks reasonable at $100.

ECM repair off ebay? That an okay way to go? Should I look for one at a JY? Neither of these repairs scare me off on the face of it.

How can I sort out if the rig has an LSD? Those little orange stickers the only way to tell?

The power valves. Should I just assume all the VQ35s will need this inspected and repaired? Or was it just the MY2001? Besides the 5spd.

Anybody swap the 5spd into an originally equipped auto? Is that the same trans used in the Z33?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read through qll them questions. If you have a good lead on an R50 lmk lol.

 

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Okay I'll add that to the checklist, thanks.

 

Btw I'm not actually planing on a manual swap. Just on of those things. Looks like it would be expensive and probably couldn't keep the full time 4wd based on what I've read so far.

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Welcome!  It's a good truck to look for, and you're asking the right questions.  I'll take a stab at them.

  1. Check the strut towers for rust, as Astrorami mentioned.  This was a recall item on older VG33 models, but not 100% sure it was an issue for VQ trucks.  Doesn't hurt to check.  The tower area will include where the top of the strut mounts, and the entire wheel well area basically.  I'll add that other points I've seen are by the rear subframe mounts (where the tail of the lower control arm bushing is) and also the tail of the fenders, especially is the truck has any fairing or mud flaps there.  Mine's a desert truck, but I've cleaned out tons of sand and dirt from the area.
  2. The IACV and ECU issues I think were only on 2000-2002 trucks, but don't quote me.  Can't attest to any repair questions, though.
  3. Orange sticker is usually the best way to tell for LSD.  If you've got a VIN, plug it in at nissanpartsdeal.com and check the Power Train > Rear Final Drive parts section.  Results are filtered by VIN, so it references the LSD parts diagram, I'd presume it to have one.  However, the LSDs were pretty weak.  I've rebuilt a few to have much better numbers.
  4. I'd plan on inspecting the power valve screws for any year unless you know it's been addressed previously.  I'd check the VIN plate on the motor to see if the motor has been replaced, the likely "fix" from a previous failure.  I know of two 2002 trucks that have succumbed to it.
  5. Can't say I've seen a 5MT swap.  The MTs were pretty rare, so that's probably a limiting factor, but they show up every now and then (another new member was just asking about this).  I'd say it requires any typical amount of AT-MT swap effort.  If starting from the All-Mode truck, yes, you'd likely have some complications because of input signals between the control modules.  You'd have to bring over the MT's Part-Time system.  That may open a different can of worms.  I would assume a Z33 transmission would not work.  One notable about the R50, in general, is that it deviates largely from other Nissans that you'd expect it to be more similar to.  The VQ35 is one of those things...it's just different enough than the 350Z, FX35, and other RWD/AWD options. 
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Thanks for the rust tips!

 

I'm also finding the PV is on all early VQs.

 

I didn't know the LSD are weak. Don't tell me they are all VLSD? I thought they were CLSD. Point me towards upgrades?

 

As for the 5MT swap.... Yeah that looks like some work so I'll probably never bother or buy one from the get. The loss of the full-time wouldn't matter since I'd get hubs anyway as I plan on a 2" lift. Whos knows what the computers would think. My thinking was I'd try to find a wrecked manual truck and swap over all the relevant electronics.

 

I didn't know these VQs were any different. From Nissain?! The king of the parts bin, can't really believe it lol. Is there a place I can look at the differences?

 

Thanks for the good info!

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27 minutes ago, pndubisk said:

Thanks for the rust tips!

 

The LSDs are clutch-based, but Nissan tapered the numbers as the model years progressed.  These are the numbers I compiled from Factory Service Manuals when I was rebuilding them:

 

LSDConfigs.jpg

 

At least for the rear diff (model H233B), there are no other LSD options, only three lockers.  I rebuilt some using new OE parts a few years ago, but I was told I depleted the supply on some of the thicker discs and plates.  However, buying a junkyard LSD from any of the above trucks will yield extra pieces to rebuild; although the parts will show some wear, it's the thickness of the pieces that'll matter here.  I've been able to build them up to about 160-180 ft-lbs and that has performed well for off-roading, combined with a front mechanical locker.  I've still got a spare LSD at 165 ft-lbs; rebuilt it from the parts I had, but never re-installed it because it was replaced by a locker.

 

That's how I'd go with the 5MT: start there, and hold out until you find it.  Personally, I've always been a stick guy; this truck is my first AT.  I've appreciated it to some degree, but I wouldn't mind an MT again.

 

So, hopefully this won't detract you from looking to buy an R50, but I've always termed the truck as being Nissan's redheaded stepchild, or otherwise bastard truck.  I've named it so because it's very different from anything that it should be similar to.  Much of the drivetrain is very similar to 89-04 Hardbody, WD21 Pathfinder, Frontier, and Xterra models, but not the same.  The front diff (model R200A), for example, is unlike every R200A that ever existed on those trucks—ours is high-pinion/reverse cut, everything else low-pinion/standard cut.  As such, we only have OE gearing options (4.363 or 4.636).  The rear axle, fortunately, is basically the same as those trucks, and there's a lot of interchangeability (I run disc brakes from a WD21, for example).  Transmission is actually of heavier duty than the others, except late Xterra, I believe.  Same transfer cases (excluding the all-mode version, which wasn't used elsewhere).  Suspension is totally different.  VQ never appeared in any other truck until the stroked VQ40 showed up in MY05 Frontier, Xterra, and Pathfinder...and even that is a very different engine. 

 

There are some parts overlaps among VQ35's, but Nissan made a lot of subtle changes on them.  Kings of the spare parts indeed!  Starter placement, oil filter location, even all the intake plenums were basically unique by model.  You don't have the overlap that existed for older Nissan car models.  But at the same time, I'll acknowledge that I've seen very little in the way of engine performance mods on the R50 done by owners...it would likely be a heavy investment of time and money to research, as no one specifically lists the R50 as an application for performance parts.  No headers, no cams, no turbo kits, nada.  Fortunately, the data is there via the FSMs as a starting point to at least see if, dimensionally, parts might work.  I use RockAuto for a LOT of parts cross-references, and of course Google image searches (I find that eBay listings for engines also have lots of pics).  Parts.nissanusa.com and nissanpartsdeal.com also help greatly for parts cross-refs.

 

That all said...the R50 is a great truck if you can get over how different it is from other Nissans, and can deal with basically no aftermarket support.  The bastard qualities, in my opinion, are what make it perhaps the best truck Nissan has produced, including 05-18 trucks.  Outside of the PV issues, the VQ35 had far more power and torque than any VG that was offered (including the supercharged one found in Frontiers and Xterras), and far less problems than the VQ40.  High-pinion front diffs are better for off-road.  Heavy duty transmission, standard.  5-link rear suspension.  While I hate having McPherson struts up front, let's face it: the truck handles like a car and you'll come to appreciate that.  The drivetrain is far more stouter than anything 05-18, including Titans (but maybe excluding the new Titan XD).  The unibody has offered no less rigidity or flexibility than a framed truck.  Better looking interior.

 

Sorry for the long post, and perhaps my final recommendation: I'd look for 01-02 models.  Outside the IACV/ECU issues and PV issues, which can be addressed by preventative maintenance, the other notable is that they were drive-by-cable; 03-04 was drive-by-wire...more sensors, more limp mode, more expensive throttle body.  I also think you'll have more hope finding your 5MT in the earlier range.

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Long post? Not even, keep it coming I say. This is exactly the kind of info/advice new/perspective buyers should be looking for. Any time I making a new vehicle purchase I research it up and down. Not only for weak points but also areas of strength, knowing where there is aftermarket support is and where it isn't is important too. Most of us have pretty solid mechanic skills, some of of can design and fab, very few of us have the time to do it all in a timely matter without a little help from those who have already walked down those roads.

 

So I'll definitely have to think about my intended use. I was initially thinking I wanted a LSD since off roading isn't too important.... But then my buddy just told me about a trip he "accidentally" off roaded from Duackbush to Staircase in the Olympics and now I'm reconsidering lol.

 

As for the manual.... All my rigs are manual, I do own one auto truck but that's going up for sale after my 4x4 purchase. Is it the auto you're referring to as being stronger than in other Nissan trucks? Does the VQ require a different BH than other VQ motors? Sounds like it does with your mention of the starter location changes.

 

I'm a little disappointed to hear Nissan made this the bastard truck, that's so unlike them to me. At the same time it looks like there are some positives, high pinion reverse cut R200? Yeah, that's pretty nice. I don't plan to hop up the motor, but damn not even headers or cams? Are there rebuild kits at least? Or would one have to order custom rings and psitons should they need a rebuild.... Thinking about an ad I saw for $400, seller says needs a fuel pump but I'm guessing they abused the motor.

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5 hours ago, pndubisk said:

Long post? Not even, keep it coming I say.

 

Ha, I can be pretty wordy sometimes...

 

Definitely consider your use for the truck.  Even if you only occasionally find yourself on a trail, a moderate amount of lift from spacers or lift springs goes a long way.  It's worth noting that one of our members have taken the Rubicon Trail in his with 2" of lift, 32" tires, and lockers (perhaps some more goodies, but that was the core).  I've been wheeling with a local Nissan Xterra group for a couple years now, and with 32", 3" of lift, and lockers, I'd outdo them all the time despite having the smallest tires, lowest ground clearance, and basically smallest vehicle among 33"-35" tires, 4"-6" lifted Frontiers and Xterras.  A lot of the guys thought my truck was stock.  Rolling with them, I've seen bent tie rods, cracked coil spring buckets, busted CVs, busted ball joints...on their trucks.  Only issues I've ever had, knock on wood, are two blowouts from some lousy Duratracs.

 

The thing about the LSD is that it's better than an open diff, even when worn.  If you can get it, do so.  Also, Lokka makes a front lunchbox locker for very reasonable price and is a great option.  I ran one in mine for a while before going to air; @TowndawgR50 is carrying its legacy.  Lokka + LSD is a great combo.

 

Yes, the RE4R01A AT in the VQ R50s were built to handle the added power from the 3.5L. Details here: 

 

Pre-MY05 trucks had the RE4R01A transmission, too, just not all to HD specs.  Regarding bellhousings, the pattern on the block I believe is very similar, perhaps identical, but the lower block/pan appears to differs because of the starter location.  On FX35 and 350Z/G35 VQs, I think I've seen two openings that resemble starter holes, one on each side of the engine, though I don't know why there are two holes.  But for sure, that would suggest different belhousings.  It's probably a moot discussion, but even if another VQ 5MT/6MT could match up, you'd not be able to get it mate with any of our t-cases.  One issue is RWD cars vs 4WD truck.  I'd guess that the bellhousing from a VQ40 truck would be a much closer match than one from a AWD/RWD VQ35 car/SUV, but all the MY05+ trucks have the all-mode transfer cases; part-time cases weren't an option.

 

Performance-wise, damn near nothing.  K&N cold air intake, that's about it!  No cat-back exhausts, not even an ECU tuner (don't be fooled by the JET V-Force Plus unit...it's a highly glorified OBDII reader, at best).  I think I've compared the header bolt pattern at some point, and I think our flange pattern is just mirrored from other VQ35/VQ40 options, but I want to say the block is pre-drilled for the other stud positions.  So there's maybe hope there, but downstream from that...all custom.  On the bright side, think of all the money you'll save by not trying to soup-up the performance!

Edited by hawairish
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hawairish, you are knocking it out with NPORA comments this last month. As you can imagine, I’m sooo gratified to see all the Power Valve warnings as that is my saddest auto event to date & has stained my soul. Can you post the links to those IACV/ECU issues, I don’t know that I’ve done those.

 

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Thanks Kent!  Yeah, it's ridiculous how catastrophic something like that really is, especially when you've pampered a vehicle.  It's more ridiculous that Nissan didn't own up to it.

 

As for the IACV/ECU issue, wish I could say I've seen a good, definitive post anywhere.  Most of what I've seen is on the NICO Forums...this is probably one of the better starting points: http://forums.nicoclub.com/advice-please-ecm-repair-warranted-t613891.html.  Much of the discussions have been chicken-vs-egg discussion...i.e., did the ECU fry the IACV, or did the IACV fry the ECU?  The issue wasn't unique to the VQ35, either (I believe it was common on VG30 in some of the cars, like Maxima and I30), but I think the primary reason we didn't see it in the 03-04 is because of the drive-by-wire system.  The issue is still rather foreign to me, but my (general) understanding is that a seal or gasket on the IACV body or housing fails and exposes coolant to the solenoid, which shorts it and also eventually takes out the ECU (perhaps an impedance issue, dunno, but doesn't read like it's an immediate failure).  If you fix the IACV problem without fixing the ECU, the ECU can then short out the IACV...not sure how plausible that one is, but it's out there.  It reads like some guys have lucked out with only IACV failures, but others replace the IACV without knowing the ECU is bad.

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Lokka up front and LSD with 2" lift and 32" tires is sounding really good. The Lokka is pretty affordable as well as the options I'm seeing for a lift. I'd most likely go with the Land Rover springs and spacers up front. I'm still looking at the strut and shocks options, either way all in on a lift kit is looking to be around $600-800 for what I have in mind.

 

I'm still narrowing down my purchase and I'm getting close. 3 days of busting my ass and the house is finally on the market freeing up my time and resources. I'm looking at a non-running Q for $500 vs a pretty nice Pathy for around 3k... That $500 one sounds tempting but I'm suspecting it may cost more in the end.

 

I'm basically putting the IACV and ECM on the to do list along with the power valves. From what I've read here the auto is the trans I'd most likely what to have anyway, if they down rated the 3.5 on the manuals that's not a good sign.

 

If for some reason I want more performance I'll figure out a turbo kit lol.

 

So quick question will the stock 17x8 et20 fit a 32" on a 2" lift?

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11 hours ago, pndubisk said:

So quick question will the stock 17x8 et20 fit a 32" on a 2" lift?

 

Stock wheels will require spacers to clear tires larger than 31", due to clearance with the lower spring retainer on the struts.

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In regards to the IACV/ECU issue, the ECU only needs to be repaired AFTER an IACV failure. When the IACV fails, it causes a short that only effects 1 circuit in the ECU. I've owned my 01 since new, have ~180k on her now and other than routine maintenance and a few sensors, she's been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. Very capable and versatile in near stock form as well. It gets tight for space now with 2 kids and the dog, and I know I really would be better served with a full-size SUV, but this thing has been so good to me (and shows no signs of quitting) that I can't bring myself to get rid of her. At this point I'm curious to see how far she'll go!

Edited by 01Pathmaker
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