Jump to content

Valve Train Noise w/ Castrol EDGE 10w30


Recommended Posts

So I want to share what happened.. On this past Saturday I changed my oil from full synthetic valvoline 5w30 to Castrol EDGE 10w30 and all was well until Tuesday morning when the temp dropped to around 40degF. When I started my engine I immediately heard unusually loud valve train noise and I just figured it would go away after the engine warmed up a bit.. that is not what happened at all!

 

On the drive to work I dropped my daughter off at school and left my engine running for the walk over to the school.. its about 75yrds and the when i was walking back I could hear the valve train slapping and smashing from more than 50yrds away!!! I didnt want to drive any further but I did anyway. While I was at work I started the engine a couple times and it was making some serious noise.

 

I got my wife to bring me oil and a filter along with a thing of Seafoam. I had 3/4 of a quart of ATF in the trunk and I filled the bottle the rest of the way with the Seafoam, shook it up, and added it to the crankcase. I then ran the engine until warm and on the way to getting warmed up the noise went away little by little until it was almost completely gone. It would still rare up a little @ about 3k RPM however..

 

So I did an oil change and put full synthetic valvoline 5w30 in it and now today the valve train noise is completely gone. Even at startup this morning there was barely any noise and today after 8 hours at work there was maybe a fraction of a second before it was smooth.

 

What in the world happened..............? I use to run 20w50 in my 3.3L Frontier before I knew better and I never ever had any crazy valve train noise like that.

 

I do worry about all this synthetic oil cleaning up the deposits that were clearly visible when I installed this engine. Hopefully this is just a process of the engine getting back to homeostasis!

 

Michael Greene

Edited by onespiritbrain
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems some engines like certain flavors of oil. I know the 5.6 in my Titan made a ton of noise unless I used Mobil conventional 5w30. The 3.0 in my D21 was never quiet, but was best with Pennzoil 10w30, my various 3.3's seemed pretty quiet no matter what I used, but my 3.5 seems to be best with Valvoline conventional 5w30.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I run Valvoline conventional (yellow bottle) 5w-30 in all my vehicles and have never had a problem. 5.6 Titan, 3.0 wd21 and 2.5 Subaru.

 

Since both of yours are 30 weight, it shouldn't change anything when cold. The 5w would just be a little thinner when hot. Weird.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My engine’s been super weird and loving Castrol 5W-40. I used to have an annoying start-up rattle from the valve train, and when I started using 5W-40, it’s been nice and smooth. Probably going to do a really good engine flush soon and switch back to the recommended oil and see how it goes.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's bizarre. I ran 10w30 in my '95 and never had it make noise apart from the first couple seconds after a cold start.

 

Do you still have the oil filter you ran with the Castrol? Might be worth popping that open to see if there's anything inside that shouldn't be, or something that might've come loose and restricted flow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haha well I had decided to buy a decent oil filter for that oil change so I bought the mid range Fram. It was incredibly hard to remove, so much so that I had to use a pipe wrench and it got ripped to shreds in the process. I didn’t think to look at it because I was honestly pretty nervous and upset.

 

I plan to hit my engine hard with ATF and Seafoam before each oil change from here on out until I feel better about all of it.

 

Also I was just thinking about telling you guys this morning, it is still quiet on startup both in the cold of the morning and in the warmth at the end of the work day.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why anyone runs 10w30. 5w30 will provide the same protection at operating temperature, with better cold temperature performance. 5w40 is currently my preferred oil as my rig does mostly city driving and then wheeling with lots of idling.

 

In my DD 04 Golf I'm currently running pennzoil 0w40. It rolls over like summertime in -20 weather. Thicker oil will make more noise at startup as it is harder to pump when cold.

 

The fram tough guard and ultra are good filters. Its just the orange cans to avoid. Go read up on bob is the oil guy. There is tons of info on oil there.

Edited by adamzan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

would probably blame it on a filter flow problem or if it has been a long time since it was changed i would entertain something broke loose and clogged the lifter rail or something like that, but more than likely it is the filter that collapsed internally and or the bypass valve didn't work. Glad it is clearing up for you though.

 

Pat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I put a turd orange one back on but I plan on getting a Supertech Walmart brand filter next time. I watched a review on them and while their not super premium, they are better than most of the mid range ones, and for $3!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Dug this up in order to report that my recent oil change to SuperTech 10w30 yielded the same noisy results.

I don’t know why my engine hates 10w30 so bad.. but it really does. I thought I had a rod knocking and I’m still greatly puzzled by what that sound could’ve been...

I threw a quart of mystery oil in to decrease the viscosity some and 50% of the noise went away. Then as soon as I got home I drained the oil and put 5w30 in, quiet as a mouse.

What the heck is going on here?? 10w30 sounds like my engine is falling apart and 5w30 it’s quiet as ever. Is my oil pump worn out or something? And if so then wouldn’t thicker oil cause better performance... what in the heck is going on here...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Supposedly ATF is very high in dispersants and is also thin so it does well at helping to suspend particles that usually end up depositing in low flow areas, or in my case it helps to keep whatever deposits are loosed by the Seafoam, which is a naphthalene distillate solvent, in suspension.

 

So basically just cleaning additives.

 

Edit: However it’s pretty clear that the only thing that was actually happening was that the ATF/Seafoam mixture effectively thinned the 10w30 out a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have the 3.5, you will want to stick with 5W-30 or a 0W-30 full synthetic. 10W-30 is a bit too heavy for the tight tolerances and the VVT systems. It will also make it harder for the timing chain tensioners (there are 3 of them) to keep proper tension on the chains. 

 

During the summer heat, with my old primitive 3.3, I run 10w-30, but now moving into cooler temps, 5W-30 will be the preferred with that engine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the 3.3

I’ve been thinking about the pumping mechanism.. so a gear pump pushes oil with the space of each tooth holding some oil against the case. Normally a small amount of leakage between the gears and the thrust plate occurs but I wonder if my thrust plate has some grooves cut into it from contaminates and the thicker oil equals higher resistance to flow thru the oil galleries and the path of least resistance actually ends up being between the thrust plate and gears.

Having a thinner oil which flows easier allows the oil to flow thru the proper channels instead of blowing past the gears. All of which would have to be in a balance that didn’t cause the idiot light to turn on. I really need an oil pressure gauge...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Ummmm... so I thought the correct oil was 10w-40?

 

I’ve been using Mobil 1 high mileage full synthetic 10w-40 for the 5 years that I’ve had the truck and I don’t think I’ve had any issues but now I’m worried. I think I’ll switch to 5w-30 next time I change it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

Wanted to update this thread. I was too scared to put 15w40 in while my QX4 was my only mode of transportation but when I got the truck I put it in and the valve train noise disappeared completely. 

 

I am now putting SAE30 "Heavy Duty Diesel" oil in and I have no valvetrain noise at all. When winter rolls around I will probably switch to 15w40 Delo.

 

SAE30 is cheap and its always in stock at Walmart 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Interesting, so 10w-30 exacerbates the valve tap but 15w-40 calms it back down. Which is quieter 5W-30 or 15w-40?   Wouldn’t think changing the winter spec would make a difference but crazier things do happen.  There is something to be said about variance in these brands and much to the dismay of many enthusiasts, ratings are not always equivicable.  So much so that in other countries many of the oils that are considered synthetic SAE here are only semi synthetics there and very few are accepted as full synthetics.  
 

The dispersants, additive packages, conditioners, detergents etc can be superior in a lot of the higher winter rated oils meant for heavier duty applications.  Currently I’m using Amsoil signature series 10w-30 which has a pretty incredible additive package with plenty of Zinc and phosphorous while most mainstream brands have been strong armed into reducing such compounds.  Its cleaning effect is very apparent but I’m planning to switch back to a synthetic blend sometime soon as I can’t deal with subsequent leaks it is creating; the synthetic blend was already bad enough.  I’ll be replacing my valve covers and going back to some form of synthetic blend but unsure what brand and weight at this point.
 

Debating whether to step it up to 40 weight for the superior film strength and boundary layer as our chain guides and other components are likely worn at this age. The draw back being reduced flow rate but to what degree is the question. Others have said higher weight means more tension on the timing chain from hydraulic tensioners meaning more wear but I think ours could probably use more tension at this age lol.  
 

As for your diesel alternative I hear Rotella T4 15w-40 is good stuff and really popular right now.  Be careful though because they contain much more ZDDP and if you have excessive blowy you’ll likely accelerate the destruction of your already struggling catalytic converters.
 

 

Edited by cham
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5w30, 15w40, and 30SAE all perform about the same with 5w30 allowing for more cold start clatter. I went on Bobistheoilguy and asked why I have so much more noise with 10w30 and I was told that a 10w30 oil blend can actually have a thinner base with additives that cause the blend to perform to 10w30 specs. Apparently manufacturers can say whatever they want to on the bottle as long as it performs a certain way in a lab.. 

 

At the end of the day I dont actually know what the heck is going on with the oils.. All I know is my engine sounds awful with 10w30 but purrs with 5w30, 15w40, and 30SAE.

 

Also I chipped out my pre-cats the last time I had the engine out. Stinks to high heaven every morning, hah!

 

Gear pumps are positive displacement so if the internals of the pump are worn then a thicker oil will actually produce higher flow and pressures at run temps. The thicker the oil I use the less clatter I hear, even on cold starts. I think the only real drawback to using higher viscosity oil is a reduction in power. Since the pump is positive displacement, if there is a restriction to flow, whether its higher viscosity oil or a blocked path of flow, the whole engine will be slowed down. PD pumps (pumping non-compressible fluid) will not slip, they will bog whatever motor is turning them or they will explode, or they will cause something down the line to explode, usually a hose.

 

However when you start getting into worn PD pumps things can get weird. I think the weirdness of worn gear pumps is what I am dealing with, in combo with the weirdness of oil blend shenanigans.

Edited by onespiritbrain
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve also heard that theory on 10w-30 being of a thinner base stock akin to a lower vis counterpart and I wouldn’t be surprised if in some instance this is the case.  
 

Wish I lived in a state that didn’t do emissions testing; I’m afraid my cats are going to finally give out and get sucked up into my engine.  
 

As far as PD pumps go; all fluids seen in your car are going to be incompressible and isotropic being ideal liquids, in fact all liquids not in a lab will be.  
 

Take away the pump for a second and just looking at the oil passageways themselves; with a higher vis oil the boundary layer formed on the walls of the passageways will be larger thus increasing friction and pressure in the system and subsequently increasing volumetric flow rate or bulk flow rate at the center.  In the end higher temps and oil pressure could be seen but to what effect you know.  I don’t expect any significant difference going from a 30wt to a 40wt especially when our factory manual even suggests 10w-40 as a suitable oil.  
 

Bottom line; wish our vehicles came with an oil pressure gauge so we can observe any notable difference between oil weights; got a BlueDriver a while ago not knowing it’s pretty limiting on the things you can read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...