onespiritbrain Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 What do y’all think about me possibly having crossed the fuel lines?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 Oh crap what if it’s the distributor... there is some kind of bearing noise coming from that area but I was thinking it was the AC clutch. Now I’m afraid that noise is the bearings inside the distributor. I didn’t spin it when I had it out because the FSM said not to.. I can’t imagine why though. It’s just strange that it clears up and acts completely normal and then falls on is face, back and forth like clockwork. I can’t imagine what else it would be that would go in and out except a sensor. Edit: ohh yeah and also when I was setting the timing with the light it was jumping all over the place. Buuuuut that was before I remembered to unplug the throttle position sensor. It was jumping 20-25 degrees all over. It was more calm after I unplugged the TPS but it was still moving around 5 degrees. Thanks for the help fellas :] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Good to know about the crank position sensor. I just confirmed with the manual, it's just there for sensing misfires apparently. Bummer about the flexplate. If it comes down to it, someone else here probably has a borked engine in a corner somewhere. Doesn't sound like the usual failure mode of the dizzy to me. It's not warmed up, it's not cutting out. The back-and-forth makes me think the computer is trying to adjust for something that's borked and having a bad time. Fuel mixture maybe? Crossed fuel lines are an interesting theory. Excess pressure to the injectors could be making it run pig rich when it's open loop, then back off when it starts listening to the oxygen sensors, then look at the fuel trim and think wait no there's no way that's right and go back to open again. You might see if you can find a picture of someone else's engine bay and see if their fuel lines are routed the same as yours. I'd also pull the vac line off the fuel pressure regulator and make sure it's not puking gas into the intake, though I'd be surprised if the ECU was able to smooth that out half the time. I'd also check the wiring to the oxygen sensors. Maybe one of them's reading funny, so the ECU goes into closed loop, the engine starts running like crap, it goes back to open loop and smooths out, back to closed loop and everything goes sideways again? Seems like it would throw a code for that, though I have been surprised in the past by what an ECU doesn't think is a problem. If your scantool can monitor live data, you might have a look at various things when it's alternating between running right and running like crap to see if you can work out what condition or sensor reading or whatever is changing when the engine starts running like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 It was the oxygen sensors!!!! Runs like a top! It’s like a dark cloud has cleared from above me.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 The trans is shifting just like it was before except that instead of “floating” into overdrive it is more of a shift, just like the other gears feel when they shift. Edit:Coming out of OD is a little more abrupt as well. I mean it’s the same at highway speeds, feels exactly like it also has, but at lower speeds from 45-55mph I can feel it engage and disengage. It doesn’t come in and out of OD or anything but I can just feel it a little more than before, like it’s a regular gear. I don’t know if this is good or bad. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Nevermind it’s exactly like it was beforeSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Glad it's running well. You should never have to shim a starter on one of these. So something is still off there. Just an FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citron Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) Boy, I would think you could see some severe marks on the flexplate if the bolt heads pushed hard enough to bend it. I wonder if the starter is gunked up and not disengaging all the way. Also, I can't find where you describe what the transmission is doing that is a problem? Edited August 22, 2018 by Citron Question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 I’m going to have to replace the flex plate. The torque converter slipped and stuttered all over the place on the way to work this morning.....What a bummer. That’s what you get when you’re a dumbass.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 I found my other flexplate in the gaylord with my other engine! Wooh! I want to pull the motor without taking anything off of it, no belts, no parts, nothing! My only concern is reaching those motor mount nuts.. I also looked very closely at the rear end of the crank with the seal housing removed and there is no way that the crank slid forward that far. Picture is a little blurry but the end of the crank is very nearly touching the block there. Unless that piece isn’t the end of the crank but a piece that’s pressed on or something.. The flexplate has to be perfectly bent because I took a video of it spinning slowly, turning the crank by hand, and there is literally no wobbling to be seen with the naked eye. Is it really possible that it is somehow bent perfectly from being pressed in just 4 places by the 4 bolts??? That doesn’t seem possible to me. Of course I am a freakin dumbass so we’ll see. And it can’t be anything on the transmission because the starter scrubbed the flexplate like crazy.. and it seriously wasn’t hard at all to run the bell housings dowelled bolts in. There was some resistance but it wasn’t enough to cause me to be alarmed, and it certainly didn’t feel like the kind of force that would be needed to bend that flexplate. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citron Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I don't think it is bent. Like mentioned above, I think the damage from the bolt heads would have been obvious if it pushed hard enough to bend anything. Also, the bolt heads would show scuffing or damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 That thing might actually be bent. It definitely looks warped in the area where all the holes are cut out and I can’t figure out any other scenario where the torque converter would have to be pulled up to meet the flexplate and the starter would have to be shimmed out. I have all the bell housing and torque converter bolts out now and I really want to figure out a way that I don’t have to completely pull anything out. What about sliding the trans back??Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citron Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Your right, it certainly looks bent. To slide the trans back, your probably 85% of just dropping the trans. The only thing you may save by sliding it back is not splitting the exhaust. You may still need to drop the crossmember to slide it back because you may not have enough clearance to lift the trans high enough to clear the mount studs. But I have never done the trans on one of these, so take everything I said with a lump of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) Bolts are good at clamping stuff together, especially when you've got a bunch of them working together. I've heard of people bolting up transmissions with the converter not seated right in the pump and breaking the pump internals. There's no lack of force there. The flex plate center is just sheet metal and it's meant to flex (hence the name), so I doubt it put up much of a fight. And because the force was spread evenly over multiple points, it moved without developing runout like it would've if you'd only left one of the bolts in. I imagine the ring gear also helped spread the load and keep the plate flat. Good to see you've got the other flexplate. Just for grins, when you've got both flexplates in front of you, set them on the floor and measure the offset from the floor to the mounting surface of each. I don't see a spec for that in the service manual. Hopefully this is the last time you have to tear the SOB apart! Edited August 23, 2018 by Slartibartfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 If anyone thought that I was done being a dumbass, well, you ain’t seen nothing yet!When I thought there were metal shavings on the crank position sensor I pried the dust cover on the trans back with a screw driver and stuck a garden hose up there trying to wash away the shavings... Well that water somehow made its way into the transmission and created Dracula’s chocolate milk....The trans oil smells perfect, no clutch smell at all. I’ve probably driven 30 miles with it like that. On the way to work today though the torque converter started slipping and stuttering from dead stops..Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Wow. Yeah, that ain't helpful. Was it running when you went at it with the hose? All I can figure is that the torque converter wasn't sealing and the pump sucked in water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 It was running.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 ??? I guess the water came in thru the breathers because my transfer case oil looks exactly the same. I got to looking at the transmission oil that I drained so I stuck my hand in it and as I stirred it around I could see a very very fine powder dissolved in it. Kind of like carrot juice has swirls in it when you shake it up. I assume it’s metal but I stuck a neodymium magnet in there and it collected nothing. Maybe its clutch material? Either way I have a mountain of anxiety about it being ruined.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Hmm. That doesn't make sense, unless the water got into both boxes when you drowned the first motor and you didn't change it afterwards. Now I'm looking closer at the first picture and I'm not sure it looks that different from what I flushed out of my '93 when I got it. Look up strawberry milkshake of death, it looks like pepto bismol. I wonder if the bloom in the picture is just the camera flash catching whatever wear material happens to be in the fluid. I've still got the bucket of fluid I drained from mine, I'll take a look tonight to compare. I need to find it anyway to add what I just drained from my PS system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 I took a picture of the used ATF I've got, with the flash on, and it's got that same chocolate milk look as yours when the light hits it at the right angle. (It looks more like used motor oil when the flash is off.) My trans wasn't acting up or flooded when I flushed it, either, I just figured the fluid had been in there since it left Kyushu and was probably due for replacement. So, good news, you didn't drown your transmission on dry land. I thought I'd posted this before but it looks like I didn't. Bent flexplate meant the torque converter wasn't seated right, which in that case caused torque converter clutch issues and codes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 Dude, thank you very much. My day just got 1000 percent better. I can’t wait to get this thing back together and try it out!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 25, 2018 Author Share Posted August 25, 2018 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 25, 2018 Author Share Posted August 25, 2018 The unseated torque converter destroyed the o-ring located on the smaller shaft which enters the torque converter. I think it’s the lockup oring but it might be even more important than that. I’m heading out to see if I can find something that’ll work in its place.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 25, 2018 Author Share Posted August 25, 2018 I'd throw a new water pump on there.Dammit. You called it.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onespiritbrain Posted August 26, 2018 Author Share Posted August 26, 2018 Okay... so the transmission is still doing what it was doing before.. I think it’s time to start a separate thread for this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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