Canadian Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hey guys, first time Ive ever had this issue, came out of work and my car wont start, just cranks and crank and cranks but no engine start or even attempt to fire. I veryfied I have fuel pressure at the fuel rail as I have an aftermarket gauge installed form when I put this reman engine in 2 years ago. Here is a video of what is happening I tried disconnecting the battery for 20 min, and the car is now sitting on a battery charger. Im hoping to check spark and possibly timing if possible next, can you check spark on a coil pack car like a traditional car with a distributor/spark plug? I wasnt sure so I didnt want to try without verifying.One thing I think I should mention is the car throws a P0505 idle air control valve error, and has for the last 4 years, it currently has no stored codes though. But Ive read to fix teh IACV you have to repair/replace a computer aswell, but the problem has been there for years, I just have to tap the gas when starting it as it hasnt had a high cold start idle since it threw P0505 so long ago.I do have a code reader with a live data function, ive actually never used it, but maybe that could shed some useful information? Anything specific I should be watching?I got the car towed home, and I will disconnect the battery overnight while I go to work, but Im doubtful that is going to help. Im open to all suggestions and will do them promptly. Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I can't hear the video, possibly because I'm on my tablet, but if it is cranking normally just not starting then it won't be the battery. Cars require 3 things to run, air, fuel, and spark. Air is normally a no brainer, and you've already verified that you have fuel, that leaves spark. For something like this I could suspect a crankshaft position sensor, key chip fault(do you have a spare key you can try?) or other ECM related issue. I'm sorry I can't be much help as I have not troubleshooter a no start on mine past messing with my alarm system. Oh, that brings up a good point though, do you by any chance have an aftermarket remote start system? That can cause issues with the chip key if it malfunctions(that's what happened to mine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Ya its definitely not the battery shes cranking good, to verify spark though, are you aloud to put a spark plug in the coil pack and ground it out while cranking the same as a distributor car? The crank sensor was replaced 2 years ago with the new engine with an OEM piece, I did try my spare key aswell. no remote start, never one installed. Im worried it may be a blown ecu, not sure that can be diagnosed in my driveway though If Im not getting spark, where does that leave me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 That's time to pull out the FSM and start digging, or take it to a trusted mechanic and break out the wallet. Do you have a spare key you can try to at least partially rule out it being a key chip problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) IIRC, there should be a red light on top of your dash for NATS key system(small red led). It should come on and go out during normal intilalization. When cranking, the light should go out as it recognizes the key. If it stays lit, you have a key issue. It should throw a code if you can find more than a generic code reader. Edited December 16, 2015 by 5523Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) I don't recall ever seeing any lights other than what is shown in the video, 99% sure. im the person that wont take it to a mechanic, Im new to this town aswell, but paying someone $100/hour to diagnose and hopefully not bend me over isn't in my new home owner budget, the truck will sit if it came to that, hoping to avoid this obviously, this is my winter baby Edited December 16, 2015 by Canadian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalbaron Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Like 5523 said, possible NATS/ key issue, there is a little led light for the alarm that will be on solid. Will set coded p1615 or p1610. If that's not it I would pull out a spark plug and check it for being fuel soaked. If it's soaked and has spark it's flooded. You'll have to remove all the coils and plugs and let the cylinders dry out. (FYI if it is fuel soaked /flooded don't crank it with the coils plugged in or you're going to have a bad day) Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So yes the IACV on these motors can short out the ECU. Hopefully that's not your issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 I did pull 2 coils and spark plugs today to check for spark, they werent soaked, but definetely smelled of fuel. I confirmed I am not getting a spark at the 2 coils I checked. I also used my code reader in live data to confirm the ecu is showing 200rpm while cranking the car so to me that would show the crank position sensor registerring. There are still no codes. If the ecu was somehow all of the sudden taken out by my iacv code Ive had for years, is this even the condition it would cause? (no spark) I am curious if I am able to even get a ecu from ebay/junkyard or is that openning a whole new can of worms with the keys and incompatible computers and such. Is tehre a way to tell which ECU may be fried, I feel there are a few ECU's on this truck, Ive yet to ever see any of them during the years Ive had it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalbaron Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I did pull 2 coils and spark plugs today to check for spark, they werent soaked, but definetely smelled of fuel. I confirmed I am not getting a spark at the 2 coils I checked. I also used my code reader in live data to confirm the ecu is showing 200rpm while cranking the car so to me that would show the crank position sensor registerring. There are still no codes. If the ecu was somehow all of the sudden taken out by my iacv code Ive had for years, is this even the condition it would cause? (no spark) I am curious if I am able to even get a ecu from ebay/junkyard or is that openning a whole new can of worms with the keys and incompatible computers and such. Is tehre a way to tell which ECU may be fried, I feel there are a few ECU's on this truck, Ive yet to ever see any of them during the years Ive had it At that point I would dive into the service manual (you can download it) and cover the basics. Check power and ground at a coil (if one has it they all should ). If that's OK the service manual likely will tell you to check continuity on the signal wire between the ecm and each coil. Which likely is fine. While your at the ecm check power and ground. But if you can use a scanner and read data they are likely ok. Check for start/crank signal while cranking it if your scanner has that capability. If you have a add on alarm system remove it. Just my 2 cents, that's what I would do if I had it in my shop. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 I appreciate the info greatly. I have a bit of good news, I was slightly set in my mind that my IACV took out the PCM as I read quite a few posts on this happening in nissan/infiniti vq engines. I inquired with a seller on ebay that offerred the service specifically for our vehicles and this problem, he said when I removed the ecu to open the case and it would be obvious something has gone wrong, he even sent a few sample pics and all had the same resistor/cap explode inside the ecu. I openned mine up just now after a fight on my back in the rain to remove it and mine is sparkling new inside, no damage. So good new, but bads news is I still dont know whats wrong. I honestly admit, after downloading the fsm last night, it seems over my head on the language they use, the signage, seemed daunting to me to troubleshoot my current problem, even your post mechanicalbaron about checking for start signal seems a little out of my knowledge base, Ive rebuilt newer car engines completely, and am sound mechanically, but these FSM's seem impossible to read without a degree. Where would the best place to start be for me after now knowing I have no spark to #1 and #3 coil, aswell as confirming I am getting proper fuel pressure to the fuel rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyeager Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I did pull 2 coils and spark plugs today to check for spark, they werent soaked, but definetely smelled of fuel. I confirmed I am not getting a spark at the 2 coils I checked. I also used my code reader in live data to confirm the ecu is showing 200rpm while cranking the car so to me that would show the crank position sensor registerring. There are still no codes. If the ecu was somehow all of the sudden taken out by my iacv code Ive had for years, is this even the condition it would cause? (no spark) I am curious if I am able to even get a ecu from ebay/junkyard or is that openning a whole new can of worms with the keys and incompatible computers and such. Is tehre a way to tell which ECU may be fried, I feel there are a few ECU's on this truck, Ive yet to ever see any of them during the years Ive had it Exactly how did you confirm you are getting no spark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 I unbolted and removed #1 coil and spark plug, keeping the spark plug pressed up in the coil, and then held the spark plug end a mm away from the valve cover and had a helper crank the engine and witnessed zero spark/arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I unbolted and removed #1 coil and spark plug, keeping the spark plug pressed up in the coil, and then held the spark plug end a mm away from the valve cover and had a helper crank the engine and witnessed zero spark/arch Although i'd think along the same lines as you, you may actually need the threads grounded in order to witness a spark. Otherwise, it is only completing one part of the circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalbaron Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Check power and ground at the coils. Should be red power and black ground. If no power check the fuses. If fuses ok check the relay Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyeager Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I unbolted and removed #1 coil and spark plug, keeping the spark plug pressed up in the coil, and then held the spark plug end a mm away from the valve cover and had a helper crank the engine and witnessed zero spark/arch Incorrect test. The valve covers are insulted from the engine block by the gasket/RTV and the bolts don't make the continuity because of those rubber grommets. Now, it's very likely something bolts there and completes a ground, but I wouldn't be sure of that unless I tested it. You need to do it again with the threads of the spark plug touching solid, clean metal (no paint) and that metal must be something grounded to the negative battery cable (like the block....except for the paint). Although, it would probably work against a painted block because it's such high current....if it works, you've validated spark, if it doesn't....you can't conclude anything. If you are VERY careful with the distance, you could forego the spark plug threads and keep the electrode very close to a truly grounded piece of metal. You can test the metal you are thinking of using (say a metal bracket) by checking resistance between that spot and the battery negative cable with a multi-meter first just to ensure you've got a good spot to test for spark. (note: I said very careful with the distance because if electrode is touching, current will flow without a spark and if it's a little bit too far away, it won't jump the gap) Another thing....in your video of the cranking, it was cranking very slow. Your battery sounded pretty low. I just want to make sure that your battery voltage is high enough to actually light off the truck. It would be a shame to go through all this just because your battery was only providing 10 volts while cranking and you didn't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) The battery seemed low in the video because it definetely was, I had attempted starting way to many times before the tow truck showed up and just made the video when it was dropped off. Appreciate the info on the spark test, that will be valueable for future knowledge. It was mighty cold up here in canada today but I got the truck running. It ended up being the crank position sensor. My local pick n pull junkyard was having a $50 all you can carry sale so I found the only VQ35 engine in the yard and picked most of the sensors/ iacv/ tps. I tried starting the truck last night and it wouldnt fire, and I installed the CPS first thing this morning and she started right up. Was a shot in the dark just because I had the spare and read alot about it causing the same symptoms I was having. got lucky I suppose. Just in time as we got our first snowfall today Edited December 19, 2015 by Canadian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyeager Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I love a happy ending!!! Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good, happy you got her going bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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