Voltmeter and Water Temp Gauge cut out, and Turn Signal Problem

[V8path]

Anyone with experience with gauges for an 88 Pathfinder.

 

Water temp and voltmeter gauge cut out. (Note - due to V8 swap and new custom gas tank, tach and fuel gauge were already not working, so am running after market gauges for that).

 

The lights still work on the cluster though.

 

And I think at the same time, the turn signal also cut out. The turn signal lights work when the hazard switch is engaged, but not when using the individual left or right turn signals. When the hazards are on, I can still hear the turn signal flasher clicking, but no sound when the left or right turn signal is engaged.

 

I can't see how the 2 gauges, and turn signal are interrelated, or are they somehow on a fuse or ?

 

Look for some help as to where to start to look for the problem(s).

[Terranovation]

That would be your headlight switch. That has metal tabs inside that probably aren't touching when you press the lever down or up. So clean the contacts with some light grade sandpaper, checking every now and then to see if they start working. Are front indicators working? Because I know if a globe there is busted then the turn signals won't work.

[V8path]

That would be your headlight switch. That has metal tabs inside that probably aren't touching when you press the lever down or up. So clean the contacts with some light grade sandpaper, checking every now and then to see if they start working. Are front indicators working? Because I know if a globe there is busted then the turn signals won't work.

 

I'm not familiar with that area of electronics. I'm guessing your reply is re the turn signals, and that problem might be in the headlight switch lever which also operates the left/right turn signal?

 

If yes, are the contacts near the pivot of the lever, and getting to it would require taking the cover off the column?

[V8path]

That would be your headlight switch. That has metal tabs inside that probably aren't touching when you press the lever down or up. So clean the contacts with some light grade sandpaper, checking every now and then to see if they start working. Are front indicators working? Because I know if a globe there is busted then the turn signals won't work.

 

and yes, the front indicators are working

[V8path]

I found this on a youtube reply. Wondering if anyone knows if the wiring for the turn signals can also affect the voltmeter and temp gauge?

 

1994 Nissan Pathfinder. The problem was the turn signals at times didn't work; until it just completely gave out and didn't work anymore. Instead of the turn signals working and turning on the little green arrows on the dash; the 'A/T temp' and 'Brake' lights would instead lit up along with a buzzing sound. Looking at the wiring diagrams I saw that junction connector c is something both the turn signal and 'a/t temp' and 'brake' light have in common. So I took the dash out which is very time consuming; looked for burnt wires or corrosion. Everything seemed fine. The hazard switch worked fine. I bypassed the turn signal switch{if the turn signals began to work that would have meant that the turn signal switch was the cause of the blinkers not working.}

[Slartibartfast]

This may be relevant:

 

Doesn't explain the turn signals, though. I know the hazard switch has to be connected for the signals to work, sounds like it is though. Bypassing the switch with a test lead wouldn't be a bad start. If that doesn't make them go I would check for voltage/ground at those connections. It could be the connections in the stalk (the headlight contacts commonly have issues) but given that both sides quit at once I'm not so sure.

[V8path]

I started by checking a few simple things, and noticed the fuse for the meter/back up lights had blown. Here's a pic of the fuse location - its the one in the top right (10A). I was really surprised the back up lights, and meters were on the same circuit.

 

 

When I did the V8 swap, I had changed the transmission and the new backup light switch located in the transmission shifter, and I used that to trigger a relay to turn the back up lights on/off. So I thought maybe I have a short somewhere in that circuit and disconnected the back up light relay, and replaced the fuse. That worked as the voltmeter came to life, as well as the turn signals. Not sure about the water temp as the engine was still cold.

 

I left the key on the run position, and after about 20 secs I started to smell something like it was burning, and sure enough, for some reason there was smoke starting to come from the new fuse. I quickly tuned the key to the off position and the fuse had melted in the fuse socket (which means I'll have to replace that particular socket or cut the wires off the back of the fuse block for that circuit and run a remote fuse holder.

 

So good news is that the problem is identified as a "short", the bad news is not knowing where (or the cause of) the short is, and whether I had a faulty fuse that almost fried the fuse block.

 

I don't have a schematic of what runs off that particular circuit, and was wondering if anyone could post a diagram if they have it, or where I might be able to find it online.

 

I'm not a novice with electronics, but am not a expert either, so any additional feedback on how best to trace a short would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[Slartibartfast]

Here's a diagram from an '89 HB manual (can't remember where I got it, downloaded ages ago). It's very similar to the '95 manual, but different enough that the right one is probably more helpful.

 

 

The interesting thing is that the fuse melted instead of blowing. If you manage to get the remains of it out, you might have a look at the contacts it slides into. If they're dirty/corroded, they'll act as a resistor, which can generate a lot of heat under load. I have melted a couple of those plastic in-line holders without blowing any fuses, but those were under a fair amount of load and had been for a while. One was running my headlights when it decided it, or rather I, had seen enough. (I don't use that type of fuse holder anymore.) I would be kind of surprised if that little 10A circuit could pass enough current on its own to melt a fuse in under a minute, especially with the backup lights off... that and the blown fuse from before does suggest a short.

It sounds like you're already doing the first thing I'd suggest, checking your work from before.

 

If you can figure out what else is connected to that circuit, and how to disconnect it, you can start disconnecting things to try and isolate the problem circuit. You could pull the fuse and test across the socket with an ammeter, but if it's a proper short circuit, I'd expect a blown fuse from the tester. Testing the disconnected circuit itself for a short by checking ohms to ground is also iffy (it's sometimes hard to tell normal grounding through whatever light/gauge/etc the wire goes to from a short). I would be inclined to test across the socket with a light bulb instead. The other stuff on that circuit should have more resistance than the bulb, limiting the current so that the bulb can't light up. If something fairly high-powered like a headlight bulb lights, you've got a short somewhere... and whichever disconnection makes the bulb go out is the circuit you need to look into. I'm sure there's a better way of doing this, though... this is coming from the guy who tore apart a headlight harness for what looked like a short on the meter but turned out to be the little bulb in the cluster for the high beams.

 

[V8path]

Thanks for the diagram.

 

This is what I’ve done so far since finding the blown fuse, disconnecting the wire to the backup lights (disconnected after the relay), and melting the replacement fuse.

 

After frying the replacement fuse, I started the process of elimination, and just for curiosity, I ran a lead from the battery (for just a few seconds) to the disconnected back-up light wire to see if the backup light would light up, and it started to fry the wire (which I now need to replace).

 

So now I’m really confused. When the backup light was disconnected, the replacement fuse was fried in the fuse socket, so at that point logic would eliminate the backup light circuit as the culprit (at least up to after the point where the wire was disconnected). But then the side test to light up the backup lights directly, resulted in frying the backup light wire.

 

All I know is I have a short (or a number of shorts???), but it looks like “where” is now more complicated.

 

Any ideas…???

[V8path]

Here's a diagram from an '89 HB manual (can't remember where I got it, downloaded ages ago). It's very similar to the '95 manual, but different enough that the right one is probably more helpful.

 

 

The interesting thing is that the fuse melted instead of blowing. If you manage to get the remains of it out, you might have a look at the contacts it slides into. If they're dirty/corroded, they'll act as a resistor, which can generate a lot of heat under load. I have melted a couple of those plastic in-line holders without blowing any fuses, but those were under a fair amount of load and had been for a while. One was running my headlights when it decided it, or rather I, had seen enough. (I don't use that type of fuse holder anymore.) I would be kind of surprised if that little 10A circuit could pass enough current on its own to melt a fuse in under a minute, especially with the backup lights off... that and the blown fuse from before does suggest a short.

 

It sounds like you're already doing the first thing I'd suggest, checking your work from before.

 

If you can figure out what else is connected to that circuit, and how to disconnect it, you can start disconnecting things to try and isolate the problem circuit. You could pull the fuse and test across the socket with an ammeter, but if it's a proper short circuit, I'd expect a blown fuse from the tester. Testing the disconnected circuit itself for a short by checking ohms to ground is also iffy (it's sometimes hard to tell normal grounding through whatever light/gauge/etc the wire goes to from a short). I would be inclined to test across the socket with a light bulb instead. The other stuff on that circuit should have more resistance than the bulb, limiting the current so that the bulb can't light up. If something fairly high-powered like a headlight bulb lights, you've got a short somewhere... and whichever disconnection makes the bulb go out is the circuit you need to look into. I'm sure there's a better way of doing this, though... this is coming from the guy who tore apart a headlight harness for what looked like a short on the meter but turned out to be the little bulb in the cluster for the high beams.

 

 

What does the inhibitor switch do? The circuit for the back up lights runs through the "inhibitor switch" (there's a inhibit relay on the passenger fender wheel well - is that the switch?).

 

What is the function of the switch?

[V8path]

Was able to find more evidence of a short in the back up light circuit but have not narrowed it down to exactly where yet.

 

When I popped the hood, I could smell a faint odor of burnt wires. After a bit of unwrapping electrical tape, this is what I found with a harness with one end of the connector going to the transfer case, which also included the wire for the original Nissan 5 speed trans backup light switch (that was in the Nissan trans, before the 4L60E was swapped in). There are 4 wires, a yellow and black that goes to the transfer case (think it is the 4WD indicator switch), a bare wire (that's the fried wire) that I think went to the original plug for the back up light switch, and the red/black wire that goes (thru the firewall and into the cab and runs along the floor) to the backup lights. Some where in this mess is the short.

 

 

Here's pic of the switches on the transfer case. The 2 wires with connectors are where the yellow and black wires plug into. And as far as I can remember, the burnt wire was for the backup light. Does anyone know what the other connector on the transfer case is for (don't think it is for the back up light???)? The badly fried wire was not connected to anything and might be the cause of the short, and knowing what it was for would help in understanding this mess.

 

 

At least I look further into the circuit between the shifter for the 4L60E and the trigger/relay I installed.

 

I'm still surprised as to how badly the fuse was melted in the fuse block, and how badly the wire is burnt in the pics. The rubber/plastic cover is completely melted off.

 

If anyone sees anything that I might be missing in my thought process, feedback is appreciated.

Edited December 3, 2015 by V8path

[V8path]

Problem solved.

 

It looks like the burnt wire in the harness that runs to the transfer case was a hot 12v wire, and had come apart from the main harness must have been lodge/stuck against bare metal causing the short.

 

I disconnected the harness and test the correlating pin of the burnt wire and it was "12V hot" with the key in the "run" position. It looks to be a loose end that should have been cleaned up and tie up better when I finished the V8 swap.

 

Everything is fine with the turn signals and the gauges now, but I'm still a bit baffled as to why the fuse melted in the fuse block, which lead to the circuit remaining closed and frying the wire that badly. At least the odor of the burnt wire lead to quickly finding the source of the short.

 

Anyways, this is another lesson in how careful and diligent one needs to be when doing wiring.

 

Thanks to Startibartfast for the diagrams.

[Terranovation]

Congrats on fixing it. I'd say the reason the fuse melted so badly was the hot 12v wire was grounding out against bare metal, as in the same way you can get sparks if you accidentally bridge the posts on your battery. A few touches of that bare wire would have been like zap zap zap, sharp increases in voltage and finally the wire would have been resting against the bare metal so the fuse would have been trying to handle that pure 14.3-14.5 volts provided by a running alternator supplying the battery, until it melted the fuse. I've never seen a fuse actually melt before, usually I hear a zap or a ping then I find a fuse with a busted gap.

[V8path]

Congrats on fixing it. I'd say the reason the fuse melted so badly was the hot 12v wire was grounding out against bare metal, as in the same way you can get sparks if you accidentally bridge the posts on your battery. A few touches of that bare wire would have been like zap zap zap, sharp increases in voltage and finally the wire would have been resting against the bare metal so the fuse would have been trying to handle that pure 14.3-14.5 volts provided by a running alternator supplying the battery, until it melted the fuse. I've never seen a fuse actually melt before, usually I hear a zap or a ping then I find a fuse with a busted gap.

 

When I first found out the fuse was blown, I replaced it and when it blew again I did hear the "zap".

 

That's when I then disconnected the backup lights and turned the key to the "run" position, and instead of the fuse blowing, it melted in the fuse block socket. I did manage to get it out and able to replace/install a new fuse.

 

Not sure if I should start a new thread, but given we're into the electrical discussion, I have a few issues with my wipers.

 

The difference between the regular wiper speed and the "fast" wiper speed is barely noticeable, and I'm guessing that's attributed to the fact that the wiper motor (being original) is now approaching 27-28 years old?

 

The 2nd issue is that I no longer have intermittent wiper function, and when shutting off the wipers, they stop wherever in "mid wipe" at the exact time I turn the wiper switch off. Normally they will/should finish the wipe cycle and stop at the bottom of the windshield.

 

Anyone know what I have to test/replace/fix (besides the reality that the 27 year old wiper motor should be replaced) to get get ALL the proper wiper functions working again?

[PathyAndTheJets]

Park switch in the motor is probably faulty. You might be able to fix it by taking it apart, a new one would fix it.

[V8path]

What is the park switch, and where is it located? In the motor or in the on/off lever in the cab?

 

Is this also the reason the intermittent function doesn't work?