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hawairish

R200A vs R200A...what's the diff?

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Here's the internal change from a 1995 WD21 R200A and in second 2002 WD22 R200A. The flange on FSM seem pretty similar.

 

WD21%252520R200A.JPG

 

WD22%252520R200A.JPG

Edited by Lemay

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Yes, they seem pretty similar, almost identical except for the carrier. Though, I usually proceed cautiously with some diagrams. I noticed that parts diagrams for the X diffs (not the FSM explosions you posted) have an inset picture showing the R50 diff, but with the correct explosions.

 

Anxious to see the real comparisons. Keep us posted.

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Awesome thread, I love all this technically detailed knowledge! Thank you guys!

 

Wanted to respond here so i can follow this thread, but more importantly, to caution against relying too much on the small visual details in the FSM... Im finishing a VG33 swap into my '93 wd21 and have been referencing both the FSM's to compare a lot of the pages between vg30 and vg33, and have noticed a lot of diagram sharing where its not correct (nothing terrible, just things like a diagram showing a V belt pulley where the '33 uses serpentine, or the "fresh air inlet tube" on em-6 of either vg30/33 fsms, not entirely similar in reality, but drawn the same in the book) Im not saying that is the case here, but just saying to not fully trust those drawings 100%... They might have reused a detail that they didnt feel it was important to re-draw.

 

Edited to add:

Yes, they seem pretty similar, almost identical except for the carrier. Though, I usually proceed cautiously with some diagrams. I noticed that parts diagrams for the X diffs (not the FSM explosions you posted) have an inset picture showing the R50 diff, but with the correct explosions.

 

Anxious to see the real comparisons. Keep us posted.

Sorry hawairish, i must not have fully read your post, I said nearly the same thing you already had, just not as concisely... Edited by Motofish

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Sorry hawairish, i must not have fully read your post, I said nearly the same thing you already had, just not as concisely...

 

Hahaha, no sweat! I had a similar moment replying to a thread the other day, right after I posted some anecdotal story, someone basically said, "Hey, just buy part this instead: link". Exactly what I meant to say, just needed (a lot) more words. :doh:

 

So if I have time this weekend, I'll also pull the carriers and get some measurements.

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Hawairish... maybe i'm an idiot.. lol... but i can't pull the flange ?!? With my rubber hammer, they don't want to be pull at all.

 

By memory the flange just need to be pull.. right?

I think some year ago a R200A flange has separated from de carrier when i was moving them to the rolling shed... but it's like 2-3 year ago so my memory is not that fresh on this.

 

Booth my wd21 and wd22 don't want to be pull, maybe it's just me and i need a BFH?

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A bolt and 4 nuts, then LFH (BFH optional). As long as the internals aren't rusted, should be pretty easy.

 

The driver's side flange is just held by the bolt in the center...17mm head I believe. You can stick a screwdriver or drift punch through one of the CV bolt holes and let it rest against the diff case to hold the flange stationary, but if that bolt's on too tight, you might bend the screwdriver/drift. I use a junk screwdriver for this.

 

On the passenger side, remove the 4 nuts at the end of the tube, then give some mallet taps around the flange. In the parts diagram, everything from the bearing to side shaft is pressed together and will come out as one piece. The bearing is a snug fit inside the tube of course, so you'll need to give it some taps all around the flange to slide everything out evenly. Mine was a little difficult too, but not terrible...I tapped a small prybar between the tube end and the "extension tube retainer" in the diagram to start the process, trying not to damage the shims, then was able to mallet it out.

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good tanks!

 

I've always be in the impression that the flange and shaft have just to be pull to get it out of the diff.

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Yep, that's it...well, and the bearing caps of course. After that, though, there's a large spacer and the shims. Not supposed to need a case spreader, but mine was in there snug the other week. I think if I tipped it up at an angle and gave it some thuds, it'd probably fall out...onto my foot. Really, it's all kind of a pain :wacko:.

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lol... at this weight, this will hurt for sure!!

 

I will try to swap the thing ASAP and came back with pic and finding!

 

Tanks for input!! :happy:

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I have 4.11s in my R200a. Early hardbodies with the v6 had a rare instance where they came with 4.11s.

 

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

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I have 4.11s in my R200a. Early hardbodies with the v6 had a rare instance where they came with 4.11s.

 

You may actually have the R180A. Looks like 4.11 (37:9) came with 85-87 VG30E and 90-92 KA24E 4WDs.

 

Is your axle code CA41 (found on the chassis tag by the passenger firewall)? I'd be curious to know if your rear diff has a removable rear cover (C200 axle).

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No. VG30i with a R200a front and a H233 rear. Axle code is HG41 so a limited slip 4.11 diff. Rear Axle is a third member as all H233 axles are.

 

VG30e was introduced in 1990. All V6 from 86.5-89 were the VG30i.

 

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

Edited by deerhurst

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Very interesting! (Thanks for the VG correction, too.) Just came across a post of yours on another forum...86.5 Hardbody.

 

Do your CVs have the 3 sets of 2 bolts, or the 5-star? I pulled some manual hubs today off a 93 Hardbody and noticed they had the same (similar) pattern as the R50, but maybe a little bit bigger diameter at the flange. Didn't get a chance to measure them. For some reason, I thought the CVs were 28 spline by then, but apparently not...

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Im over on InfamousNissan too. The VG30e and i are pretty much the same but the e is MPFI and the i is TBI.

 

I have no idea. Never pulled my CVs, they are still factory install. Did swap out the auto hubs for manual hubs years ago but never paid any attention to the CVs.

 

The 4.11 is some sort of unusual SE-V6 config found on trucks without any sort of packages that are normally standard on the SE-V6. My truck is odd due to having the 4.11s yet having LSD and full SE trim minus cruise and power windows/locks.

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Yeah, Nissan is silly with their trim conventions sometimes. Though, it doesn't look like those gears ever made it to a Pathfinder....I guess I would've expected some similarities between the models.

 

You should be able to see the bolt patterns from the wheel wells...but judging by the truck I worked on yesterday, maybe the wheel well liners obstruct the view.

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Hawairish i haven't forget you, been busy as hell last weeks and the kidney surgery of my mother doesn't help me at all lol...

 

If it's not raining this weekend i will try to swap the thing... i have no garage and power tool usualy don't like water :lol:

 

i have to do a front brake job this weekend as well, and if all goes like i planned and i do it, i will get measurement of the cv at the flange on the same time from my 2001.5 QX4 VS wd21/wd22 who is a identical cv minus the bolt patern

 

 

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I did more thinking about this tonight than I would have liked to...the project that prompted this thread in the first place: what it would take to swap an X/Fr diff into an R50.

 

My original plan was to use a C200 diff cover from any other Nissan truck/SUV. The existing X/Fr cover just won't work. Don't know why it took so long, but tonight I finally compared the bolt pattern of a C200 gasket I bought months ago to the pattern on the X/Fr diff and it appears to be a 99% match (1% because I didn't remove the cover, just overlaid the gasket on the bolt heads).

 

However...one thing I hadn't considered until tonight was if the bolt patterns between the R50 and X/Fr were remotely similar. I had previously dismissed it simply because it's 9-bolts vs 8-bolts. Well, comes to find out, looks like 7 of the 9 bolts appear to match (again using the gasket as an overlay, but without removing the cover), with the 8th and 9th bolts being the mismatches. This could be really good news...if that's the case, a simple bracket that connects the 1st and 7th bolts and provides a new 8th bolt hole would make the R50 cover re-usable (with a minor notching for the 8th bolt), like so:

 

IMG_3663.jpg

 

The huge width gap on the passenger side is a problem. I think the best solution is to just pull the passenger tube completely from the R50 housing and swap it onto the X/Fr housing. Any custom drivetrain shop could probably do it (or knows a guy who knows a guy). But this way, I'd have the passenger mounting points and be able to just re-use the passenger side shaft. As is, the X/Fr axle would already need work grinding the mount off, plus a weld-on brackets to mimic the mount points, plus a spacer about 3" long for the CV (this piece alone probably isn't cheap, since aluminum would likely be the best choice). I think pulling two axle tubes and re-installing one is the simplest approach here.

 

The driver's side is more complicated, though. I'd like to think a custom bracket could be bolted on using three existing long bolt holes in the snout of the case. I have some other ideas, but this seems the simplest...though welding it on may be recommended.

 

I'll have to double-check, but maybe I am wrong about being able to use the R50 driver's side shaft in the X/Fr diff...for sure it'll physically fit, but I'll have to confirm that it doesn't interfere with the oil seal or the retaining nut in the carrier. If that does work, then the minor width gap (.75") on the driver's side is easily solved.

Edited by hawairish
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Interesting... even the breather seem to be in the same spot!

 

I've still not tested the Wd21 shaft in the wd22 diff, noting have been according to plant in my new house (electrical nightmare), but I'm in progress lol. I've built a tall table to work the diff side by side last weekend, but still need to change the distrib. this weekend in my wd21 before I can take my trailer to get my diff who is in my part truck at a storage area lol.

 

I stay tune for your developments and I like the way you go!

The tube welded are to the casing....right?

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No sweat man!

 

To answer your question: the axle tube is only spot welded in a couple thru-holes on the diff casing. Beyond that, it's just pressed in as far as I can tell. This seems pretty typical for axles with non-removable 3rd members. But obviously, this approach requires a shop with the right tools to do this work.

 

I came up with yet another approach the other night...one that could potentially make this entirely bolt on. The idea is to just have a one-piece extension that bolts where the CV bearing flange is, and replicates the R50's flange and mount. That way, you just swap over the R50's long shaft and bearing. To keep costs down, you could even re-use the non-R50 flange and weld on an extension directly to it (obviously, this would make it a little less bolt-on, but the weld would be a simple perimeter weld).

 

I have to think about the stresses involved where the piece would be bolted to, though. On the drivers side, a very custom bracket would mount to the snout bolt holes and some of the diff cover's bolt holes.

 

But at that point, you'd basically just swap over all the R50's internals and shafts to avoid having to mix and match pieces. The only things that wouldn't carry over are the R&P.

 

This all probably doesn't make sense in words, but when I get home from this week's biz travels, I'll take things apart and get some pics. I'd definitely like to get some feedback on this and build some interest. Just imagine being able to run those 5.13's!

Edited by hawairish

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Got around taking the diffs apart last night, and it gets a little trickier.

 

Keep in mind, too, that the plan is to use a W/D22 R200A, but I presume the WD21 I have is identical to it.

 

The good news is that the R50 diff cover does indeed fit the WD21 diff, with the exception of that one bolt I mentioned. However, the 7th bolt hole leaves a small gap that will need to be plugged, and absence of flange where the bolt will go. The fill hole is at the same height as the WD21 cover.

 

IMG_4014.jpg

 

IMG_4015.jpg

 

Next challenge is the passenger side oil seal. On the WD21, it's at the end of the tube. On the R50, it's next to the carrier. The R50 side shaft has a collar pressed towards the splined end that fits into the R50 seal. The WD21 side shaft only has a collar next to the bearing. However, the R50 shaft also has the same collar, in the same position, and uses the same bearing.

 

IMG_4031.jpg

 

This basically means that in order to re-use the R50 shaft, we just need an oil seal at the end. Both axles use the same oil seals, too, so things (doesn't hurt that I also have extra oil seals for these diffs laying around for getting dimensions).

 

So, back to my approaches...

 

I do think the best approach is to swap the axle tubes. The tube diameters where they are pressed in appears identical, clearance issues prevent exact dimensions. The WD21 has one plug weld, and the R50 has two. Once the tubes are pulled, the R50 end needs an oil seal recess milled out, then it can go back together.

 

R50 passenger end...oil seal recess would be milled in the black part in the center:

 

IMG_4019.jpg

 

Can't see it too well, but the oil seal just inside the black area.

 

IMG_4020.jpg

 

The alternate approach is a spacer that adapts the WD21 end to the R50 side shaft end, in concept:

 

IMG_4016.jpg

 

Obviously, this would be an elaborate piece, but it would have all the right mating and mounting surfaces. You'd just bolt it to the diff, and bolt the R50 shaft to it. But this could be a rather expensive piece and requires precision. You'd also need to grind off the mounting piece on the axle tube.

 

Now, for the driver's side. Still thinking about this one. I may need to hit the JY for the bracket that the axles mount to, see if there's another way. But ideally, a bracket will attach over the diff cover's flange using the existing bolts, and join up with the vertical cylindrical mount on the WD21 axle...however, that mount is where one of the mounting holes for the R50 diff is.

 

IMG_4029.jpg

 

IMG_4030.jpg

 

Open to ideas...

Edited by hawairish

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What great info! Im interested to see where you go with this buddy. Excellent read!

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Stupid question on the cover. Would it be more work to stick with the original cover and just buzz off the mount vs modding the flange on the other cover?

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Good question, actually. If you have the means (a grinder and patience), it's doable. The diff cover is cast steel, and it's pretty thick at that. But, it looks like the cast also dimples inward behind the mount a little, so grinding too deep might expose a hole, but it has to be ground enough to match the height of the R50 cover because crossmember clearance is limited.

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Took a better look, and the cast iron cover is actually a little lower than the R50 cover, so grinding too much and exposing a hole probably isn't an issue. Still a lot of cutting and grinding, though.

 

I think re-using it dependent on how to the driver's side mounting points are replicated. I was thinking about a bracket that bolts over the diff cover flange, and the advantage on the R50 cover is a much more flange area for a bracket, and the thickness is uniform. The cast iron one has limited around the bolt has an a non-uniform flange. But if a steel plate could be welded to the diff case and replicate the holes, then that's moot.

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I reaaaaaally like the way the cover bolt to the R50 diff.

 

I got an idea... For testing purpose you can fill the bolt holes for the cover with NAPA 2K urethane adhesive, this is oil and solvents resistant and very good adhesion to metal, so perfect for filling void (or repair fuel tank and fuel line.. lol)

 

 

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