2004LE Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Hello everyone, very new to the forums here. We bought out 2004 LE last year for $850 (yes thats eight hundred and fifty ) with 225,000kms and have so far replaced an alternator, serpentine belts and the rear door hatch. Recently we noticed the rear end would severely bottom out with a LOUD smash/thud noise. Sounded like the shocks were about to come through the floor! This only occurred when there are 2 passengers or a heavy load in the rear of the vehicle. So we ended up buying OEM springs and Monroe oe-spectrum shocks and replaced those. Massive improvement in the ride when you drive alone but still bottoms out with the same LOUD thud (thought not as much as before), not on normal bumps but it especially occurs when the road his a small dip in it. When replacing the rear suspension components, the bump stops (i think thats what they're called) are all torn up and not really doing anything which might explain why the thud is so loud. However, my main question/reason to post is to find out why after completely new shocks and springs the rear end still bottoms out. This vehicle isn't really used for more than one person to drive but it is occasionally on family outings and long trips so it's kind of annoying when it bottoms out like that. Rest of the vehicle is perfect. My guess was the shocks are too "soft". My dad and I have replaced shocks and springs on a few of my Mercedes and other nissans before so we were surprised when this one kept on bottoming out when people sat in the back seat. Any suggestions on forward steps to take? Suggestions on a different brand of shocks? Help is much appreciated, thanks in advance Edited May 18, 2015 by 2004LE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) I don't think you are bottoming out, have you actually watched the car bottom out or do you feel the whole car slam into the rear wheels? I think you should a look at your trailing arm bushings, because if you hit a dip In the road at speed, and have blown bushings, that could make a fairly loud noise. Check the arms, and the arm that runs parallel to the rear axle (to blanking on the name right now) if any of those are blown, they will make unpleasant sounds. Check the rear sway bar links while your at it. Report back what you find -Kyle Edited May 18, 2015 by ferrariowner123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2004LE Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Thanks for the reply, trust me..it is bottoming out. If the bushings/sway bar links were bad, it would be making a clunking noise, or something along the lines of that and/or getting a swaying feeling in the rear. We had them go bad on our xterra, had a camry that had the same problem and a lincoln town car with the same issue. Rear links and/or bushings were the issues for those three cars. This bottoming out issue only happens when there are people sitting in the back. If there's just a driver or just a driver+front passenger, the vehicle drives absolutely perfect. But when there's a load on the back, it makes a loud banging noise when going through dips. Normal bumps in the road and its fine. I'm 100% positive its bottoming out because when alone, its fine and feels nice and firm but when people are sitting in the rear, it feels all soft and kind of mushy in the rear. I had a 1998 pathfinder that did the same thing a few years ago except the noise wasn't as loud, same type of feeling/noise from the rear. The shocks that we took out from this car were pretty much dead, don't know about the springs because they weren't cracked or broken...we just assumed they got soft over time and replaced them as well. My uncles 2001 pathfinder doesn't do this when there are 2 people sitting in the rear of his so it's a bit confusing as to why ours is doing it after new shocks and springs. I will definitely check out the parts you suggested though. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Years ago, before I installed a lift on my Pathfinder, I had the same problem while towing a boat. There are a couple of solutions to this issue: • you could install different shocks, perhaps Rancho RS9000X adjustable shocks, p/n 999010 or 999116 • you could install Airlift air bags which fit inside the coil springs and provide additional load-carrying capacity for those times when you've got people and/or gear in back. • you could install a coil spring lift Also, since your bumpstops are destroyed, it's probably a good idea to replace them, unless you go with Airlift springs, which can replace the bumpstops if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2004LE Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Thanks for the reply xplorx4, i think my problem has to do with the monroe shocks being too soft. My first step will be to take those out and replace them with a better quality/firmer unit. From there i guess i will see how things go, the airbags seems like a clever idea since in the future this vehicle will be used to occasionally tow a small utility trailer. I will change the shocks, hopefully sometime in the next 2 weeks and report back whether it made a difference or not. Any idea how much it costs approximately for those bags? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Airlift bags run under $100 for the kit. Check out http://www.airliftcompany.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Thanks for the reply, trust me..it is bottoming out. If the bushings/sway bar links were bad, it would be making a clunking noise, or something along the lines of that and/or getting a swaying feeling in the rear. We had them go bad on our xterra, had a camry that had the same problem and a lincoln town car with the same issue. Rear links and/or bushings were the issues for those three cars. This bottoming out issue only happens when there are people sitting in the back. If there's just a driver or just a driver+front passenger, the vehicle drives absolutely perfect. But when there's a load on the back, it makes a loud banging noise when going through dips. Normal bumps in the road and its fine. I'm 100% positive its bottoming out because when alone, its fine and feels nice and firm but when people are sitting in the rear, it feels all soft and kind of mushy in the rear. I had a 1998 pathfinder that did the same thing a few years ago except the noise wasn't as loud, same type of feeling/noise from the rear. The shocks that we took out from this car were pretty much dead, don't know about the springs because they weren't cracked or broken...we just assumed they got soft over time and replaced them as well. My uncles 2001 pathfinder doesn't do this when there are 2 people sitting in the rear of his so it's a bit confusing as to why ours is doing it after new shocks and springs. I will definitely check out the parts you suggested though. Thanks!I think you're confusing sway bar bushings for trailing arm bushings. The xterra has a leaf spring setup while your pathy has a 5 link coil setup. The "links" are those arms you see connecting the rear end to the frame. Crawl under and try to twist them. If you get movement they're bad. Fairly common part to wear on the r50. Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I know you did not mention anywhere that you wanted to lift it, so this may not be helpful. I had the exact same issue as you and it was absolutely terrible to drive over any sort of speed hump(not bump, but hump at any sort of speed), or dip in the road. It was compounded as there is a dip in the road that you must hit everytime you leave and come back to where I live, so it was at a very minimum happening twice a day. Once I installed the 2" lift and bilstein 5100 series rear shocks it rides like a dream over those same bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDN_S4 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Lift it! Get some old man emu Medium Duty springs and your woes will be over. Like Nova Path said, lift and quality shocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyeager Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Mine does the same thing. I rarely have 2 adults in the back, but last time I did I bottomed out a couple of times just as you describe. Plus, when sitting empty, the suspension really only looks to have about 3" of down travel left before the bumpstops. My driver side bump stop is ruined, which is probably why the bottom-out feels so harsh. I'm sure it's normal and just a result of the suspension's design (optimized for a smoother car-like ride). If you get new bump stops, that should return things to normal. Setting down on the plush rubber will be firm, but probably shouldn't be harsh as you are experiencing. My philosophy is that shocks are there to dampen spring oscillations, not to act as augmentation for the spring rate. I wouldn't try to solve this with firmer shocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Shocks for sure are to dampen oscillations, but one of a shock's key functions is also to limit how quickly the spring is allowed to compress or rebound. A spring soft enough to provide a comfortable ride will inevitably allow bottoming out, while a spring that's stiff enough to avoid bottoming out when sharply loaded will be too stiff to provide a comfortable ride. In this case, I believe the right combination of springs and shocks is worth investigating. OR, as I mentioned earlier, getting helper springs (airlift) or adjustable shocks may be a less costly and more efficient solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) I think with your experience you may want to go for some uprated springs and shocks, though as others have said it might be your upper trailing arm bushings being worn out. It's worth crawling under there because even if it's not them directly, with 225kms they may be due anyway. At worst, they're fine and won't cost you any money. As far as the Monroe shocks go, I believe Rebelord on here runs them, and hasn't reported an issue. Being brand new, even if they're on the softer side of damping they should be ok for just having people in the back. When I first bought my pathy I went with Bilstein 4600s in the rear at stock height, and being loaded down with people and gear for a 1600 mile trip to Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming with some off roading, I didn't notice any bottoming out. The rear 245/75r16 tires were definitely tucked into the fender well a bit, but to no ill effect. So it might just be the shock choice, even though the stock springs are well known for being quite soft. Off road and over rough surfaces, they (and the rest of the stock suspension system) have the tendency to have axle hop and try to huck the truck sideways, so I think they're a bit under rated, but usually don't bottom out. Right now I have OME MD springs and 2" longer Bilstein 5100 shocks (Part numbers in my build). Having a highly loaded pathfinder for an 8000 mile trip to the South last summer, I had zero bottoming out, a soft highway ride, and minimal sag even while I retained the stock-length 4600s. So if you're willing to replace the shocks, I suggest going this route. The 5100s are even better at absorbing bumps, and give my pathfinder killer handling IMO. Edited May 19, 2015 by Karmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2004LE Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Well thanks for all the replys guys, greatly appreciated! The trailing arms/bushings seem fine, no twisting in them. And lifting is not much of an option, my mom uses this vehicle to go to work everyday and with arthiritis + a knee replaced, lifting it wouldn't do any good in making things easier for her, which is why we got this vehicle in the first place. If it was mine i'd probably do it I think my only options are to just try a different set of shocks or put spacers in the rear/airbags or fix the bump stops and deal with it. I know the banging noise i'm getting when it bottoms out is because the bump stops are all torn up. I'll be looking into what options I have within the next few days to see what I can do. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The monroe shocks are fine. I used those on my parents r50 and it rode fine with no bottoming. The springs were never an issue and it lasted till 300k. Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) In that case I'd suggest replacing the old bumpstops, I think that ought to cure the problem. You might be able to upgrade to some heavier duty bump stops that are more progressive, but I haven't looked into it personally. Check to make sure the Monroe shocks aren't blown, because maybe they just have a defect and could be replaced under warranty. Have you installed a larger spare tire? Perhaps it or the larger shocks are hitting the panhard bar at more flex? I'm just shooting up ideas, maybe you'll find something you didn't expect. Edited May 19, 2015 by Karmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2004LE Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yeah the bump-stops will definitely stop the bone jarring smash that happens. The monroe shocks made a world of a difference to the ride and handling compared to the ones we took out which were pretty much close to shot. I'm starting to think this is just the way the r50. I think the only way to stop it completely is the airbag kit, i mean its only $125 on amazon...it'll probably really help when towing. Might as well spend the money once rather than having to spend it over and over guessing to see which part fixes the problem, if it fixes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebelord Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I don't run Monroe. I run Gabriel Ultra. Stock moog replacement shouldn't bottom out. If everything is fine. I'd replace the shocks. See if the parts place will exchange them for you. Which part number Monroe did you get btw? Wonder if they gave you to short a shock. Therefore already compressing the suspension. Do note the Gabriel do ride a bit stiff for a while Sent from fat fingers on S6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I don't run Monroe. I run Gabriel Ultra. Stock moog replacement shouldn't bottom out. If everything is fine. I'd replace the shocks. See if the parts place will exchange them for you. Which part number Monroe did you get btw? Wonder if they gave you to short a shock. Therefore already compressing the suspension. Do note the Gabriel do ride a bit stiff for a while Sent from fat fingers on S6 Ah that's right. I agree with the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2004LE Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Ended up buying airlift airbags for $140. Anywhere I can find a diy or something or is it just as simple as stuffing the bag through the coil spring....i read on another thread that the procedure may be more involved with drilling and such but not sure if that one was for another r50 or a wd21, unless the procedure is the same for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) You will need to lift the rear and support the body on jack stands. Support the axle with a jack and remove the shocks and swaybar brackets on the axle so that you can remove the rear springs. As you lower the axle to let the springs fall out, be careful not to overstretch your brake line or diff breather hose. You can unbolt the brake line manifold on the axle to help prevent overstretching. After the springs are out, drill out the hole in the center of the bottom spring perch according to the size indicated in the instructions. If you fail to drill out the hole to the correct diameter, the air fittings on the bags will not fit through the hole and will become damaged when the suspension cycles. Place the bags inside the springs and reinstall the springs on the axle. You may opt to remove the factory bumpstops, since the bags will serve as bumpstop alternatives. I can't remember if the Airlift instructions mention this or not. When I installed the airlift kit, I removed the factory bumpstops. Even though I have 2" lift springs now and don't bottom out the suspension or have any need for the airlift bags, I still have the bags installed inside the springs, since they serve as bumpstops now. When routing the air lines from the bottom of the springs to an inflation valve, route the lines along the brake lines on the axle and up to the chassis. I opted to install the inflation valve on the panhard rod support brace, easily accessible through the left rear wheel well. It's easy to reach. Edited May 21, 2015 by XPLORx4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Cs Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I had the same problem with my 2001 R50. In my opinion the rear springs are weak, period. Having my 6'2" son in the back seat was enough for the truck to bottom out on the freeway in any humps. I put in Airlift air springs about 5 years ago and they made a huge difference. I had the local mechanic down the street do the install but really it does not look difficult to put in. good luck I have been looking at the different builds from the members of this group and am tempted to upgrade the rear springs and shocks, maybe even a lift. I need to self educate about the options availiable but it does sound like the guys who have upgraded the rear suspension dont have this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebelord Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Nope definitely don't with lift springs. However my OME do ride a lot firmer than OEM. Sent from fat fingers on S6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) I had the same problem with my 2001 R50. In my opinion the rear springs are weak, period. Having my 6'2" son in the back seat was enough for the truck to bottom out on the freeway in any humps. I put in Airlift air springs about 5 years ago and they made a huge difference. I had the local mechanic down the street do the install but really it does not look difficult to put in. good luck I have been looking at the different builds from the members of this group and am tempted to upgrade the rear springs and shocks, maybe even a lift. I need to self educate about the options availiable but it does sound like the guys who have upgraded the rear suspension dont have this problem. No bottoming out with my OMEs at all. Like I said, even loaded with ~700 lbs of junk for an extended trip, zero bottoming out, and almost no sag. It will ride slightly firmer than stock, but in a good way. It's much more controlled over the rough stuff, potholes, and on the freeway the rear end doesn't want to dance out over expansion joints so bad. Corners flatter too, so I really don't have any complaints. I actually like the highway ride more, it eats bumps without being floaty/uncontrolled. Not to mention when leveled it only lifts 2.5" which is about perfect for what I do, and I think enough for 99% of wheeling, minus rock crawling. I really do love my OME/Bilstein 5100 combo. Edited May 26, 2015 by Karmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2004LE Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 I guess my final question (so far) would be that will having no bump stops ruin the bags or will everything be alright without them, Just asking because i'm going to have the coil springs out again so if I have to put bump stops in I might as well do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebelord Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 You have to remove the bumpstop to install the airbags. Btw if you're not going with lift springs. At least install some new Moog springs. Can get them at Advanced Auto for about $45 for the pair. Sent from fat fingers on S6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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