NovaPath Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 I was looking for the stainless version it appears, I see now that the regular version is in stock. I'm about to place an order as well, did you order the shafts from there as well? I'm debating between ordering off this site or waiting and seeing if I can find something at HD etc that would work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Ah yes, they had limited stock on the SS stuff. But the non-SS is zinc galvanized and should hold up pretty well. Don't buy the rods...one side is LH thread. The disconnects are RH thread. I'm heading to Lowes in a few to check their supply if fine threaded rods...thinking they'll only have coarse thread though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 I suspect they will as well. Problem with the rods is they will need to be some sort of treated metal or else they will simply bend. Ideally we would want stainless for the rods....There are a few options online I just don't know how I'd cut them at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I've got a message out to a guy on eBay who sells threaded shafts and does special orders. I asked him about 1/2" sizes that I'll be going with, but also about two 3/8" options for you. The first option is just a 3/8" rod with RH threads on both sides, but the other is a 1/2" rod that's turned down to 3/8" at the ends. That way, you've got a slightly beefier option and can still have a no-drill solution (though in hindsight, I could've asked for something a little more substantial, like 5/8" or 3/4"). Regardless, we have options for beefier links at any size. I also asked him to give some options for materials that were close to a Grade 8 zinc-plated. For me, that's all I need (dry heat here), but perhaps he's got a suitable SS option for you. I'm going to buy a 1/2-20 die and explore making my own threaded shafts. The big box stores didn't have any UNF threaded rods, but they had steel/SS rods. An shipping is probably terrible for any sizable length of rods. I have a compound miter saw that I rigged up for chopsaw cuts (worked great for the SFD spacers). But if push came to shove, I'm sure you could hacksaw threaded rod found locally? Also, I was thinking about effective link lengths. For the front link, my logic might be incorrect...the "corrected" length might actually be a little less than the OE effective length. Any lift (strut spacer or lift coil) not netted out by SFD spacers cause the attachment point on the strut to actually get lower relative to the sway bar. So to keep the sway bar at it's stock (and presumably "ideal") angle, then a shorter link is needed...but there's definitely a limit to this logic. In the rear when lifted, it's moving higher relative to the sway bar, so a longer length is needed. In all likelihood, I'll leave the effective link about the same up front because I know it's working as is, but I will increase the rear link about 2". Let me know what threaded rod lengths you come up with. I've got: 5.5" of 1/2" rod to maintain 7.5" length up front using two QI500 4.5" of 1/2" rod to maintain 7-1/8" using one QI500 and one QIL500 5.5" of 3/8" rod to maintain 7-1/8" using one QI375 and one QIL375 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 I think I'm going to go 1/2" all the way around, seems like i'm being lazy not to and would just introduce a weak point for failure. Let me know what the guy says about stainless rods, I'm going to figure out a way to cover most of these things anyways but with the salt up here in the mid atlantic I'm concerned about corrosion regardless. I was had my cart loaded up last night but decided to hold off and call them to see if getting the stainless ones would be an option anytime soon, if not I will go ahead and order 6 SQI500's and 2 QIL500's(the stainless version of these is what is not in stock). Seems like stainless steel ball joints with stainless steel links should be pretty darn bulletproof as long as you lube them occasionally. Also thinking about the possibility of only needing one side secured with the wire loop once the sways are disconnected, essentially we just need to make sure that it never drops down lower than the lower track rod. My concern with securing both sides would be getting into a situation where the sway was putting force onto the hangers, and then it ripping them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 You could try a small L bracket on the perch and go with 8 SQI500 (the SS versions) instead. I actually have some concerns over the pulling force of the S/QIL500 anyway, but using them seems to be a more ideal setup to me. The problem with only 1 wire loop is that nothing "resets" the side without a loop. A droop on the looped side will tug the sway bar end upwards, but when the body roll returns to center (or a droop on opposite side), nothing tugs that sway bar end back up, which means the looped side's sway bar end may actually contact something when that side's tire tucks. Both loops just allow the chassis to tug the sway bar ends to articulate the sway bar, but by not being rigid, they defeat the sway bar's function. But with only 1 loop, you'd always end up with a sway bar pointing upwards. I think the logic applies to both front and rear axles, but it may actually be possible to pin the front bar up and skip the loops altogether. The problem is that the front sway bar's arms angle away from the wheel well, so an attachment point in the wheel well might not be close enough (or at an angle that the link can't handle). But, I like the original plan because it can be done one-handed, blindly, and you wouldn't have to go back and forth between tires to pin it up (i.e., unlink pass side, unlink driver side, pin up driver side, pin up pass side....though I guess you wouldn't need to pin up the other side?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Thats my thought as well, although another concern with the front sway is it looks as if we may have to push the abs and brake lines out of the way to not snag them while it is rotated up. This is actually a large concern as it would make disconnecting the front a two person job. At this point I think the best thing to do is to get some parts in our hands and start fiddling. I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on the 6 SQI's and 2 QLI's now. If the QLI's rust it will be an easy swap at a later date. Did the ebay guy get back to you on the links yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Alright, just placed an order for: 6 Qi500 Ball Joint, Quick Disconnect USD $3.42 USD $20.52 2 QIL500 Ball Joint, In-Line Quick Disconnect USD $9.25 USD $18.50 Looks like someone else is stalking this thread because the previous stainless steel ones that were available last night are now gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I agree. You'll have to let me know how the parts are when you get them, since you'll see them before I will. No word from the eBay guy yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Looks like someone else is stalking this thread because the previous stainless steel ones that were available last night are now gone... Guess that's a good thing. I mean, we've spelled out the concept clearly so hopefully anyone who's looking for a solution finds it here. Also hope they chime in with their results to keep this as a resourceful thread for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) So I think i'm going to go ahead and order a 2 ft section of 316 grade stainless 1/2-20 RH threaded rod. I've been on the fence about buying a grinder for a while now, and I think that this will help motivate me to make it a "need". I think that the stength will be just fine compared to what is on there now, and if it bends these rods than the links themselves are going to have problems anyways(just my thought process). I've also been thinking about the required lubrication, and i've come to the conculsion that as long as I am able to wheel this thing once every couple of months(which is my goal), and I re-lube them every time, that they should in theory last a long time. I'm getting very excited to get some parts in hand and spend a day tinkering with this project, the payoff would be huge the next time I am out wheeling and flexing like crazy! Edited May 10, 2015 by NovaPath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I got a response from the eBay guy...he actually put up two auction links and gave a single price for all the items I spec'd (1/2" and 3/8" sizes) instead of individual prices. He can do a high strength steel (needs plating to be anti-corrosion for a little extra $) or SS (but not as strong). It averaged out to about $16/shaft, shipped, for either option. That's good enough for me! These are also nice, finished shafts, not just a fully threaded rod. I'm going to ask him to modify the auctions to just be for the 1/2" shafts in the actual quantities any one person might need to make a front and rear set. He also ships to Canada, eh! The lengths I'm having him go with are 4.5" and 6", which allows for a front link up to 1" less in length over OE (6.5"-7.5") and a rear link of 8-5/8" to 9-5/8" (for lifts of 1.5" to 2.5"). At max length, though, you're only using 1/2" of thread length (the connector ends are only 1" deep). I'm also asking him to price one more option: same specs except with a 5/8" rod turned down to 1/2" at the ends and two parallel flats milled at the center of the shaft to accommodate a 1/2" wrench. This way the shaft is never less than 1/2" dia. and we can prevent the shaft from turning when the end nuts are tightened against the connectors. Not sure how necessary this might be, but doesn't hurt to get a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Finally found some posts about someone else's attempt at using these disconnects. Jeep: http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-show-tell-33/tried-making-swaybar-disco-129056/ Isuzu: http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66914 I'm obviously not the first to go this route. It helped knowing what to call these things. Oh, per the Isuzu thread, McMaster-Carr sells the joints also, just not the inline (S/QIL) ones: http://www.mcmaster.com/#ball-joint-linkages/=x4os1i. I'm guessing they're the same, but at least there's another supplier. The last guy on that thread said he had some problems disconnecting, but I gotta wonder if it's just about the angle or something. Obviously, they should go in without issue...so I'd think they'd come out without issue. (Guess we'll find out.) Both read like there will be some noise, but I'll chance it. I figure no matter how you look at it, most disconnects have metal-metal contact...noise is seemingly a given. However, those same posts have some other approaches using Heim joints...so at least you can try another route. Note that in the Jeep thread, MCP gave specs of 5389 lbs for ball stud breakage and 1500 lbs socket pull. Those seem sufficient, but we'll know eventually. Again, if SJ produces links with them (the QIs anyway), then who knows. Also, the eBay guy came back with $69 shipped for a set of 4 links in either flavor. Both include hardware (8 nuts), but the price on the high strength steel doesn't include plating; he'll get me that price separately. I'm waiting to post the listings because I want him to make some little corrections so there aren't any mixed signals if anyone else wants to go this route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Excellent detective work! I found Grainger will sell a 3ft section of 1/2-20 solid Stainless all thread for 39.00, so I think I am going to go that route. I will wait and see what the ebay guy posts first though. Seems like the jeep guy really preferred the heim joints, but I'd like to give this way a go first as well-seems easier. I also really liked his retain-age system, although I don't necessarily know how it would work on our pathys. I honestly think that figuring out a way to secure the sways is going to be the hardest part of all this, I haven't found any documented cases of someone being successful at it(not that it means we can't!). I'll most likely be out of town when the joints arrive next week, but the week after I should have some time to fiddle around with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 As promised, eBay links: High strength steel Stainless Steel Note the pics are just generic pics, and I had him mention that the HSS isn't plated. He can do custom sizes, lengths, and quantities. But if anyone else is willing to give it this a shot, there you go! The heim joints seem to be favorable in general, but the reason I'm wanting to see how this goes is just because the perceived simplicity. All those other joints have spacers, collars, and pins...too many loose parts to fudge with. I really like the idea of one-handing it all, if it can really be that easy. But yes, securing the bar is the other half of the problem. (I have no doubt some guys are biting their tongue about the 'just remove it!' theory) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 I received them in the mail yesterday and had a chance to unbox them. The good news is I definitely think they will be strong enough, but there are two downsides: 1. The springs on the 90* angle ones are very difficult to compress with one hand. Perhaps they will be easier once mounted. 2. There is play in the joints that will undoubtedly lead to noise. I'm wondering if I can pack them with some super thick grease to help reduce it, time will tell I suppose. The rear noise won't bother me as much as the front, but I hate being able to feel clunking and loose parts through the wheel and the floorboards. I'm still moving forward with the project, but suspect I may ultimately go the heim joint route as well. This will serve as a very practical, useful, and cost effective stepping stone I think, but I don't expect it to be the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebelord Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Fill the void with silicone? It should hold and is a good dampener of noise Sent from fat fingers on S6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 That's along the lines of what I'm thinking, too. My other thought is that a slight difference in end length might keep enough tension on the sway bar, but I wonder if it'll make it tough to install/remove. They also can't be too different in length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Placed an order through Grainger tonight for 2 1ft sections of 316 grade 1/2-20 right hand all thread. Still need to source the bolts but that shouldn't be all that difficult I wouldn't think. Scheduled to arrive May 20th, and I should have some time to tinker(I hope) the weekend after. I will update once they are cut and installed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Finally home from my work travel and getting a good look at these. I'm seeing some of your concerns with these as well. The 90° joints are a bit tough to open as you noted. Too tough, actually. Otherwise, I think they're quality parts, and I'm not concerned about noise with these. The 180° joints...well, there's good and bad, I guess. The springs on these are better; big improvement over the 90° joints. Of the 4 I ordered, I can wiggle the ball joint out of one without even pulling the collar down. Not good, obviously. Two others appear fine, but with a small amount of pull, they bind and lose the ability to swivel. Also not good, especially since they all came greased. I can see these seizing and failing. Once the collar is pulled down, the joint needs to be at about a 30° angle to remove, which is a bit excessive, just makes it tougher to install/remove. The worst part is the nearly 1/8" of up/down play on the ball in the socket...that will be a major source of noise and failure. Now, the 4th one I got is quite different from the others...in fact, it's perfect. At first, I was concerned it may just be the wrong part, but it's definitely the same size and dimensions. The spring requires much less effort (almost effortless). The up/down play in the ball socket is minimal...I need a dial indicator to tell. It doesn't bind at all when pulled. It has a few more degrees of swivel (not that this is necessary), but it also needs less angle (~15°) to disconnect...and with a tiny amount of filing, it could be 0°, which makes removal and installation that much easier. So, I'll be giving these guys a call on Tuesday to get some things sorted out. I don't think they do returns, but I consider the other 3 defective...I can't/won't use them. If they can get me 3 more like that 4th one, and also provide/sell me springs like the one, that would make these a totally viable solution. However, the springs aren't easily replaced...I'll probably need to destroy the springs to remove them, but new springs I would be able to get them on relatively easily. I also picked up a plated steel rod and 1/2-20 die. I'm going to try making a finished rod or two this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaPath Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 My 180* ones seemed to be okay, but maybe a slight bit of play. Regardless, i'm going to give them a go. Stainless steel rods came in while I was away on business travel, but this past weekend was spent detailing the family hauler and trying to get rid of the rotten egg smell(literally) from the trunk. Hoping next weekend to have the nuts here and be able to tinker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) I'm close to scrapping this particular approach. After talking with MCP, they can't ensure that I'll get replacement 180°s like the one I received, and I'm not willing to chance it. If the replacements are anything like what I received, they'll fail. The springs on the 90°s are just too tough to compress (and unnecessarily so), and MCP won't sell the springs that came on the 180°s separately. This was what two of my QILs were doing: If I gently tugged the ball joint stud out, it would seize in the housing and prevent motion without popping it back in. It didn't take much effort, and these came fully greased. If I were to install these, they would just constantly wedge and pop before eventual failure. You can see the spring differences below. The "perfect" joint is on the right; takes minimal effort pull the collar. The middle spring is better than the 90° and would also be acceptable. I'm sure I won't remove the links often, but I imagine that every time I do, it'll be a hassle assuming I don't end up cutting my hand trying. I've been looking for a suitable spring replacement in hopes of keeping the joints, but nothing has been close on size...and anything I've found costs 2x-4x what I paid for the joint itself. I'll still end up taking a small hit after returning these, unfortunately. Chalk up to R&D. I may try the McMaster-Carr joints, but they are more expensive and for all I know, they may just be MCW joints, too. Edited June 12, 2018 by hawairish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well, thought I'd see if I can make them work today. Started threading some SS rod, but it's just not practical labor-wise. Gonna get some threaded rod delivered and give it one more try, then decide if this is still feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebelord Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 A image I had downloaded some time ago of Calmini prototype rear disconnect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawairish Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yep, seen em. Common design. I've seen a few places that sell some exact like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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