If a smaller SFD was available...?

[hawairish]

I've gotten a good idea why others aren't going with the 4" kit, but is a smaller kit any more compelling?

 

I've been piecing together a 2.5" SFD for my 04 SE and will install it at the end of the month. I'll be test fitting a 1.5" version while I'm at it. I'm considering putting together a few kits if there's a demand.

 

The kits would include all new hardware, subframe and motor mount spacers, and a new steering link. There are no strut spacers included because this is geared towards guys already running a lift and looking to correct their CV angles. But you could add your own strut spacers for more lift if desired (that's what I'm doing).

 

Metric Class 10.9 and OEM hardware to replace all subframe fasteners with as few bolts as possible. Welded subframe spacers for better strength, better unibody pad contact, and the same amount of material as a simple tube (or less/lighter with thinner gauge steel). Front and rear extended brake lines (pending fitment). A spacer to keep your skid plate. And even rear bump stop extensions (something often overlooked).

 

Targeting a price under $400 for everything. I may do a budget-friendlier variant that uses additional US Imperial Grade 8 hardware, simple tube spacers, and less of the latter stuff. But my personal kit will be as above.

 

So...anyone interested? Questions? I'd love to know what other concerns (costs, installation, safety) that might keep people on the fence if these options existed.

 

Oh, and...

 

[green180]

I'm interested

[Yendor]

Second!

Nice work!

[Precise1]

I would like to see this come about...

 

B

[01Pathmaker]

I really like where this is heading! I too considered the Kfab sfd for a while, but as much as I'd really like to go that route and run 33's, it's just not practical for the needs of my dd/weekend warrior. A similar kit in the 1.5"-2.5" range would be ideal. Then for the many that have chosen to go up 2"-3" via spacers and/or springs would be able to bring ALL front end geometry back to (or very close to) factory specs. This would not only aid in the alignment process, but greatly increase the longevity/reliability of cv's, tie rods and ball joints. I'm definitely interested and will stay tuned to keep an eye on your progress. Excellent work so far, by the way.

[hawairish]

Awesome, thanks fellas.

 

The subframe spacers in particular I think you guys are going to like. The pic shows 3/16" thick steel, and those are going to be overkill. Quoting CDN_S4 from his build thread: "There's no kill like overkill!". I'm going to drop down to 11ga (.120) steel going forward, which means I'll have a set of Super Beef Limited Edition subframe spacers for someone special. Shall I paint them gold, too?

 

While 11ga sounds underwhelming, it's the same thickness as the subframe and unibody. Since the spacers will have rigid cores, it'll be plenty strong. Y'all just have to wait for more pics. Since I'm not doing the welding, I'm also having to wait to see the parts.

 

Tomorrow I'm planning to order up the steering link, which is the last thing I need to order. The steering link has been possibly the most time consuming part to research (and also the most expensive). I was hoping to find a compatible Nissan link or components, but the Pathfinder steering setup is too unique. The steering link will be the same high-quality link that KRFabs provides (but at a different length, of course).

 

I crawled around the truck tonight to compare the new brake lines with what's installed. Looks like it will be a perfect fit. Per their specs, they should be 2" longer up front and 6" in the rear. It looks like it may also be possible to get another 1-2" up front with a simple bracket. The rear line will be 6" longer. I won't know with absolute certainty that everything fits until I get into it, but it's looking good.

 

 

[Mehbenn]

I'm in

[duke90]

I'm in. Any idea on the time frame? I'm having my coils/struts/control arms etc all replaced next month, would be nice to add the sfd while everything is apart if at all possible.

[hawairish]

I'm in. Any idea on the time frame? I'm having my coils/struts/control arms etc all replaced next month, would be nice to add the sfd while everything is apart if at all possible.

 

I hear ya...that's how this project started. I only need new bushings on my trailing arms and I figured, "well, while I'm at it..."

 

I wasn't planning to jump on anything until January because I'll be traveling for work and the holidays, but nothing really prevents me from getting a kit together before then. I won't be able to confirm if everything fits until the Thanksgiving weekend, but the steering link is the only thing I have any concern over.

 

How soon would you need it?

[duke90]

I have everything sitting my my garage (literally everything to redo the front and rear suspension + new rotors and drums) just waiting to receive the rear OME coils and I was told they should be coming in at the end of this month. If you install yours over the holidays and can get back to me early december then that should be no problem.

[hawairish]

So, I got the finished spacers back, and they're as solid as expected. Just need to hit them up with paint and slap them on. Even got all the hardware necessary for bolting everything up yesterday, and ordered up the steering link today.

 

For those interested (or not), do you think welding up the subframe spacers is worth it (i.e., would you want that or just simple tubes)? It does cost a little more because of the welding work, but because lighter steel can be used, the material is cheaper to buy and ship. I'm going with welded regardless, but thinking I'd offer a couple options (simple .188, welded .120, welded .188).

 

Also, just wanted to re-iterate that this SFD is just that...it only drops the subframe. I thought about including strut spacers, as angled spacers are not necessary here, but I'd just be the middleman if I did. There are several strut spacers available, and by not including them, I don't have to mark up the costs to cover my shipping costs, and you get to pick-and-choose your setup. For my setup, I'll be adding my .5" to a 1.5" spacers.

[Yendor]

Personally, I'd like to have to avoid welding, so a straight bolt on would be preferred for myself.

Can't wait to see some pics!

[hawairish]

Sorry Yendor, I meant welding on the spacers themselves, not welding them on the truck. Everything will be bolt-on, and without cutting or drilling.

 

Here are the welded spacers, though still a little rough. Just need to clean up the surfaces, drill holes, and paint.

 

 

The center is a rigid, hollow box formed by the walls of the three tube pieces that comprise each spacer. Same amount of steel as a simple tube, but is much stronger. These are 3/16" thick and probably didn't need welding at all, but the design also allows for side access by tools (which is only necessary for the front subframe hardware anyway) and reduces the amount of rounded tube edges that contact (or more appropriately, don't contact) the unibody or subframe.

 

Tomorrow, I'll pick up enough .120" steel for another 2.5" set and a 1.5" set.

 

The steering link arrives in a couple days, and is the last part I need, then it's all systems go after the gluttony that is Thanksgiving. Though, I just had to order another (3rd) shock for the rear because apparently I loosened something inside the shock (wtf?) while swapping the bushings and it doesn't behave like it's mate now. I'm hoping to get it before T-day, but I can limp if it arrives after.

[paul.thoroughgood.3]

How's that sfd coming along

[hawairish]

It goes. Couldn't start yesterday unfortunately. Couple little snags, like a near-stripped subframe nut (not to mention it was super-torqued down), and a steering link u-joint that didn't have enough tolerance for the steering rack's splined stud. Both just about killed the project, but I got past them luckily.

 

Test-fit the 1.5", and now have the front 2.5" spacers in place, just not tightened down. Need to finish up the rear and motor mount spacers, then button everything up. Also pulled the LCAs and got the rubber bushings off...about as time-consuming and crappy as I expected.

 

Tomorrow I'll wrap up the drop portion, re-install the LCAs with poly, add strut spacers, install brake lines, and put the front back together. Hopefully I can tackle the rear of the truck tomorrow, but doubtful.

[XPLORx4]

Just a quick question: Do you remove the front diff to install the SFD (specifically the motor mount spacers)?

[hawairish]

Just a quick question: Do you remove the front diff to install the SFD (specifically the motor mount spacers)?

Yes. And annoyingly, it's the only reason to remove the diff.

[hawairish]

So the spacers are in, but I'm going to pull the axle back down and put in these motor mount spacers instead:

 

 

I was originally worried about the MM spacers simply because of the size of tubing (2.5"x 2.5") and possibly not having the clearance I'd need. I ended up cutting a .120"-wall piece in half (like "[" and "]") and installed those, but didn't feel comfortable with it...a high-torque situation would probably bend them and cause a world of other issues.

 

The above design is better, though I may need to trim them to get the length and width down. I ended up using .188"-wall instead, and with these angled cuts, the pieces will be working against each other under high-torque situations, leaving the motor mounts to do their job. (The top of the picture represents the front of the truck.) This also helps with tool clearance...there isn't much on the passenger side to begin with.

 

The steering system was a little more time consuming than I had liked. My measurements were pretty good, though. I did rotate the rack just a little to be on the safe side, but in doing so, it shortened the overall shaft length required. I'll need to get the shaft machined down, though it's probably cheaper to buy a new one. It'll work as-is for the time being. Didn't have any issues with the hoses/lines, though a longer low-pressure/return hose from the PS reservoir will give enough slack to return a bracket to it's original mounting point on the subframe (you can see a lonely bolt on the top of the subframe two pictures down). The high-pressure line got a small bracket that keeps everything in comfortable.

 

 

 

 

A shortcoming on my part was thinking that I'd be able to remove the upper strut mount bolts from the mounting plate without having to disassemble the entire strut. Since my strut bellows are pretty tattered and not doing anything useful, I'm waiting for their replacements to come in before I add in my spacers. I'll also tackle the brake lines at that time, since I still need to confirm those even fit.

 

I've also been tackling a few other tasks. The LCAs have been installed with SuperPro bushings (it is not necessary to remove them for the SFD install). I also spent a couple hours re-doing my skid plate mounting bracket and 'missing link' because the bolts kept cross threading--the steel plate was damaging bolts because it had no tolerance for a slightly off-center welded nylock. I was able to bore out the plate and re-tap some nylocks, but had to cut the welds on a couple of them. The axle even got a good wash while it was down.

 

That's it for now. Still have a lot to do (beyond the SFD); hopefully I'll have it wrapped up before the weekend.

[paul.thoroughgood.3]

Good write up, unfortunately, I can't see any of the pics

[hawairish]

I see that now, and I know why. Why can't I edit my posts?

 

Edit: Why can I edit this post but not any of my others?

Edited December 2, 2014 by hawairish

[hawairish]

Revised MMs:

 

 

Beef Supreme:

 

 

Beef Supreme installed, rack slightly rotated:

 

 

PS line bracket with perfectly bad camera flash:

 

 

Edit: editing this because I can. Hopefully the pictures are there. If not, then you can safely assume that none of this is really happening.

Edited December 2, 2014 by hawairish

[paul.thoroughgood.3]

Thanks hawairish, looking good

[hawairish]

Welp, it's done finally. I'll try to post up some pictures tomorrow or over the weekend, though I'd rather wait until the rear is complete for the full effect. The sad part is that I haven't even touched the rear yet, and won't be home for the next 3 weekends and a week in between...so it's another week of working after work all next week if I want to get it done this month.

 

All told, what a PITA. And because I wanted different motor mount spacers, I basically had to undo and redo everything. So, by my count, including the fact that I also fit a 1.5" SFD, I've installed an SFD at least twice as many times as pretty much anyone else. The most satisfying feeling was just before the end: needing to jack the truck up a few inches just to put the tires back on.

 

I had it on stands since Saturday morning...but no, the install itself didn't take that long. In fact, I'd say I probably spent about 8-10 hours doing everything that would be necessary assuming all the parts were ready to go (which they weren't). The rest of the time was fabbing up parts; repairing my missing link and skid plate brackets (they were causing the bolts to cross thread); installing longer brake lines; installing poly bushings on the LCAs; and all sorts of just cleaning things up. The only thing remaining up front is to fab up the front skid plate spacer, and install the camber bolts once they arrive.

 

So, about the SFD install. Overall, a lot of work. The tough part is that once the subframe is down, you lose a few inches of face clearance to work under (fortunately, you gain some work space overhead and can reach places you couldn't reach previously). Removing and installing the axle is time consuming...I had to work it down with a floor jack and pair of jack stands...twice (wife helped with some jack work one of the times). I had flashbacks of the time I pulled down my transmission from my Frontier without help.

 

With everything back together, I have zero CV binding at full droop (pre-install, I had some on the passenger side). Floor to fender flare increased exactly 2.5" on both sides, which matches the subframe spacers perfectly, but I'm certain it'll settle more since I only added 1.5" of strut spacers. I ended up using the .188"-wall spacers instead...if I was going to go through all the hassle of reinstalling everything, then no point of letting those sit.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't even taken it around the block yet, let alone even out of the garage. The good news is that I have no left-over hardware beyond what was being replaced.

 

Stay tuned for the next steps...

[XPLORx4]

I'm curious why you modified the motor mounts. What did the previous ones look like, and why do the new ones have an angle?

[hawairish]

I'm curious why you modified the motor mounts. What did the previous ones look like, and why do the new ones have an angle?

 

The short answers:

• Tooling space. The difference between a 4"-tall and 2.5"-tall spacer is huge when it's the difference between being able to use sockets, wobbles, and extensions to tighten things up, versus only being able to use a wrench. The subframe pad's side supports, and the gap between the studs of the mount and the heads of the lower bolts, made it impossible for me to use anything other than a wrench, without buying other tools (like a good set of ratcheting wrenches!).
• Tubing size. If I could find 3"x 2.5" tubing, that would have been golden. Otherwise, I'd need to butcher and weld pieces together, which is what I wanted to avoid because I don't weld, and it's a lot more work.
• Tubing direction. If the opening of the tube opened to the front/rear, I couldn't get a wrench up on at least one of the nuts on the motor mount. If turned 90 (opened to engine/wheels), not enough interior width to get a wrench on the nuts. A slight rotation opens up the width (i.e., the length of a side vs the length of the hypotenuse.)
• The passenger side subframe pad is not nearly as deep as the driver's side. The max depth from hole-centers is 1.5", whereas on the driver's side, I didn't even need to measure. I needed to make another cut on the just the passenger side if it was going to be rotated.
• The angle cuts are so that I had some structure of the spacers opposing each other to deal with the torque from the engine. Tube spacers would've been fine if it weren't for the mess above. The 2nd attempt (the ones I removed), ended up cutting the spacer into two C shapes, but because the walls ran parallel to each other when installed, there was nothing to prevent the motor from shifting, or even collapsing. I don't have a good way to judge forces here, but took the safer-than-sorry approach because I don't trust the transmission mount to be any saving grace (it's designed to support the transmission vertically, not control torquing from the engine). I could've upped to .188" steel, but I just didn't like the approach.
• The angle cuts all allow for tool access. Again, things are really confined up there. The spacers need to open towards the engine...my 14mm offset wrench barely worked on the passenger side to clear some tubing and the bottom of the engine.

The real goal, aside from preventing the motor from being somewhere it shouldn't be, is that if I'm to kit anything up, I need a simple solution. Going forward, the solution is simpler than I made it (I went with the Super Beef edition for peace of mind, but I also didn't have enough material to do it this time around). If I cut a 2.5" tube at angles, that will give me tool access, a 3" x 2.5" dimensions, and opposing forces.

 

I know, this is one of the truly worthless posts without pictures. I'll probably just sketch something up. I also need a better way to host pictures. Google is pissing me off.

 

The bottom line is that there are far more constraints for a 2.5" spacer than a 4" spacer. A 2" SFD amplifies the problem, and a 3" SFD is pushes the need for angled strut spacers (which I don't want to produce)...2.5" is the middle of the road.