cvdloc Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 So over the past couple days (after the long drive) the brakes have been decreasing meanin I have to pump it to get full brake pressure but after the drive to the car pool buddies house in the am I had next to no brake pressure even after pumping. So I thought, I just need to bleed them, just did that but it was strange, no difference even after 30-40 pumps, same bubbly spitting sound, like, it ooses out then spits.. Hasn't done this before, happened on both sides (only did fronts) This has me worries, so now I'm getting it towed back home (luckily got bcaa plus!) and I'm going to take a through look on the weekend, but I'm going to post a 'feeler' to see what you guys think. It has been a bit leaky, only driver side caliber, I come to a small leak daily, but hasn't been an issue. The past couple weeks thought it feels a bit soft when I first start it (pumping makes no difference) but its fine after a couple minutes of driving around, this makes me think the issue might be at the master cylinder... Anyways maybe I'm doing some wrong during bleeding so I'm going to tell you what process I go threw.. The truck is off while doing it, I open the valve, friend presses brakes, I wait for all sounds and fluid to stop, i close it, friend releases brakes, and repeat. Another thing I noticed is that the fluid barley drops, usually it falls quickly. Always kept it topped off so no air can get it. I am thinking that it's sucking in air at the calliper as the brakes are released thus causing no change... I can take the ones off my 95 pathfinder, I checked a couple months before to make sure they are the same so I'm going to swap em out. I just want to see what you guys think, how do I check my master cylinder to see if it's good? Have you guys experienced this? Truck is an 1987 nissan pickup z24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 What was the order you bled in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 What was the order you bled in? I did driver side then passenger (if that's what you ment) if not I posted the steps I took above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaBigPerm Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 This does sound like a caliper piston not sealing all the way, or the master cylinder doing the same. One thing though, is that if I'm not mistaken all semi-modern (late 60s onward) vehicles have dual-channel braking systems - two wheels are on their own independent hydrolic system and the other two wheels are on another (usually corners are paired, but some have front/rear). That way if a hose pops or cylinder fails on one wheel you don't lose the entire braking system, just half of it. However, a bad master cylinder would affect the whole system (since they never got around to redundant master cylinders). I had a bad MC on my '66 Fairlane once and the way it behaved was the pedal was always soft like it needed pumping, but pumping didn't firm it up. Pressure on the brake pedal would cause it slowly drop all the way to the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 this does sounds like a brake master cylinder issue to me but I would also get the leaky caliper fixed. I would also replace the brake vaccuum check valve to the master cylinder for good measure. PART NUMBER: 47478-03B00 DESCRIPTION: CHECK VALVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 7, 2013 Author Share Posted December 7, 2013 That what my gut feeling is.. It's acting funny. Been pondering about doing an up grade? But I have this weekend to fix it so its a bit out of the question... (Shoot some ideas if you got any for upgrades?) I will replace the caliper with the ones off my pathfinder, curious if the master cylinder off of the 95 xe will work? I know it's a vg30 and the truck is z24... Would anyone know? Would make it nice and cheap, but then I won't have brakes in my 95.... Maybe it's time to rip out the rear axle, tcase, etc and get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 A bit off topic but how is the body on that 95, as far as rust goes? I need a few pieces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 7, 2013 Author Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) A bit off topic but how is the body on that 95, as far as rust goes? I need a few pieces...Typical rust spots but in good condition, rear is smashed, had it up on parts but got no interested, pretty sure thread got deleted.. Ill throw I picture up in a second... It's a little muddy.. Edited December 7, 2013 by cvdloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 Update... Got the driver side caliper swapped out last night but while I was taking off the tire, the shop that repaired my leaky valve flippin cross threaded the bolt on and it snapped a stud... That pissed me off, watched the guy do it too, he just places the nut in his air gun and pushes it on, no wonder it f...ing cross threaded, gunna have an interesting phone call soon... Anyways hopefully when I get home it doesn't snow too much cause I'm going to throw on the other caliper and bleed the brakes, if it does the same thing, atlease I took care of the leaky calipers and I know it's the master cylinder.. I think, do you guys think it could be the brake booster? Not too sure how that thing works, tried following the lines but it disappeared under my air filter (it was getting dark out at the time) Anyways, does anyone know of the pathfinder MC will work for the hardbody? My brakes on the pathy are officially gone so I don't mind using it now... Riding the clutch and use of the e brake makes parking it on a hill a breeze Ill add photos later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 So I came home to this.. So I went snowboarding... Weekend is close enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast5speed Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (since they never got around to redundant master cylinders). I had a bad MC on my '66 Fairlane once and the way it behaved was the pedal was always soft like it needed pumping, but pumping didn't firm it up. Pressure on the brake pedal would cause it slowly drop all the way to the floor. Oh boy. You need to have a look under the hood of an older Volvo. I was helping a friend pull the motor on a 1975 Volvo 242. Holy brake lines! Dual master cylinders and 10 brake lines! In the service manual, bleeding the brake system is quoted as a 3 hour job. To address the OP, I think it would probably be best to use new parts. You can pick up brand newcalipers off Rockauto for like ~$30/side. Alternatively, you could buy a rebuild kit with new seals and all that. If replacing the calipers doesn't work then the other options are the master cylinder, and possibly an older brake line becoming porous I suppose. Can you have someone press on the brakes really hard and look for leaks? If your brake system is somehow sucking in air (other than due to the MC being empty), it must also leak fluid under high pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) I have been looking at my options and pricing things out, the calipers on the pathfinder are in good condition besides some surface rust, to think of it now I should have taken a day to sand em and paint them a cool colour but it's alrighty done, the things you think of after the job the passenger side caliper does have some wrinkly seals but no signs of leakage. Anyways I am trying to stay away from new parts on the front axle, since I was to do an sas in 6 or so months. But the MC won't be something I will want to cheap out on, besides the pathfinders is different from what I have been told. With the weekend now here, along with the rain, I'm going to jump into it and get it to a point where ill know what to replace or fix. Here is a photo of the master and booster if you guys see anything that pops out, looks bubbly under the MC on the booster, what you guys think? While emptying the old caliper this came out Bunch of black gunk, could be a sign of bad lines as well... And yes, that is a Tim's cup I am thinking of replacing the rubber hose, they can't be that much? I have been pricing out MC and here is the list I got... Napa $240 Lordco $220 Local Nissan Dealer $293 Alkorahil $188 Rockauto $50 - $120 Also priced out the brake booster just incase and it was $120 off of rockauto. Been also thinking its the fluid? I used it in my pathy, no issues, but maybe it just doesn't compute with my HB? It's typical gunk dot 3 of course And here is a photo of the busted stud... Really annoyed about this, I called the shop but I have to bring it down but at the moment I can't. I hope they will cover it. Also today I started the truck and let it get up to running temp keep things moving esspecially with cold weather, was pumping the brakes to see if I could get a little pressure, it did, only just but the engine was dropping rpm from 1500 to as low as 1000, kinda sounded like it could stall if I kept pumping, this bothers me... Could be normal but still, seems odd... Edited December 14, 2013 by cvdloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBumBrian Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 So I came home to this.. So I went snowboarding... Weekend is close enough? Hey cvdloc, I like that push/brush guard you have.... Who makes that one and do you know if it is still available somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) Hey cvdloc, I like that push/brush guard you have.... Who makes that one and do you know if it is still available somewhere?Honestly I do not know, it came with a truck, asked the PO and he said the same thing. Although I do plan on making my own bumpers in the future after sas. Everything is held on by bolts nothing is welded, very stupid in my opinion. When I get access to a welder I am going to weld all the joints to stiffin it up (everything besides the mounting plate to the frame or bumper) the top bar is missing so ill be fitting a pipe in. Then when the time comes i will be selling this with everything you need to bolt on... Otherwise sorry I couldn't help you out, maybe someone will add to this? Edited December 14, 2013 by cvdloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBumBrian Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Yeah, I know a lot of those are just bolted together and you could knock them off with a good kick but I wanted to use one (maybe an old Manik if I could find one)as a base and do my own mounting, gusseting, bracing etc. The ARBs are awesome but REALLY expensive and they look heavy as hell.... Thanks for the heads up, maybe when you do get rid of it it might give me a reason to visit family in Mt. Vernon.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pav Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Honestly I do not know, it came with a truck, asked the PO and he said the same thing. Although I do plan on making my own bumpers in the future after sas. Everything is held on by bolts nothing is welded, very stupid in my opinion. When I get access to a welder I am going to weld all the joints to stiffin it up (everything besides the mounting plate to the frame or bumper) the top bar is missing so ill be fitting a pipe in. Then when the time comes i will be selling this with everything you need to bolt on... Otherwise sorry I couldn't help you out, maybe someone will add to this? That one is the Nissan stock steel guard option for Canada from '88 to '94. I've seen guys here put a winch on that model. For '94 and '95 we had an all aluminium version (that I have on mine). For some reason in Canada our bush guards curved at the ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBumBrian Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I like the curved ends.... Wish I could find one in the states! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 Personally I like it, but I'm a bit worried to actually use it lol, too flimsy. Anyways today I bleed the front brakes, everything went fine but when doing the passenger caliper, it was going good, even pressure, then sputtering... Didn't get better at all after. Went for a test drive around the neighbourhood and no brake pressure at all until it hits the floor then the rears locked up... Thinking of replacing the rubber lines, but that would cause issues right away, for the fact the it took the hole line to bleed threw to notice a leak. Do you guys think it's possible for the front seal in the master cylinder to go meaning the back brakes could still work? I know it's two different sections and the front brakes are closer to the booster? I did put my ear up to the MC and I could hear bubbly fluid moving, and I swear I saw bubbles in the fluid container which is making me think about replacing it... Anyways let me know what you guys think, I'm going to sleep on it, then tomorrow I'm going to make a decision on where to order it front, it would be nice to have it right away, might just cough up the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 So I'm tryin to look at rock auto to figure out which MC to get (since it's the third of the cost) I don't know which one to get I'm a bit overwelmed. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1210857,parttype,1836 There are some with a 15/16th bore? Even 1" bore... Is there a difference at all? Anyone with experience with this? I was thinking about this one... http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1626882&cc=1210857 If anyone could confirm this it will help, I'm going to try to call rock auto maybe they can help me out but I'm at a family function, could be hard to get away lol, anyways thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I have a NIB dorman master cylinder for a 95 pathy with drum brakes....Too bad they say it isn't the same, thought it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I would give you a decent price on it if you want to try it. I think the only difference is the bore size, pathy is 1 inch while hardbody is 15/16. You'd have stronger brakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvdloc Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) Yeah they look identical but I think the mounting bolts are different, I know on the HB it's only 2 bolts holding it on, if I'm not mistaken the PF has 3? disreguard, i think your right. they did offer 1" bore which is making me think, but with moving right after xmas im not wanting to play around. Anyways to update you guys I am ordering that one I posted, I called and asked them questions very helpful since I'm a first time buyer and the catalog was a bit overwhelming at first. I hope everything goes well since I have heard some story's with mistreated items, knowing the risk it's worth saving over 130$ (lordco $220 rockauto $85 including shipping) Edited December 15, 2013 by cvdloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methfinder Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 It's official. Nissan's brakes suck big time. I just finished chasing down the problems (plural) on mine, all of which decided to happen at the same time. Ironically, as much as I thrash on my poor Pathy, I don't think I caused these problems. My older brother had almost all the same issues with his maxima, so I'm probably not done replacing things yet. First thing I noticed was my brake light and spongy pedal. I checked all over for leaks, and I never could find one. So I just kept on adding brake fluid wondering where it was going, that is, until I finally noticed brake fluid spraying out that expensive proportioning valve attached to my back axle. Visibly, it seemed to be spraying directly from one of the hard lines, so I removed the line, cut and re-flared it. No luck. I mentioned the proportioning valve is expensive, right? After tons of research, and very minimal availability of this impossible to find part, I find the oil spraying out a little black rubber plug directly above the steel line. Most likely just an internal o-ring for the the valve. Of course it's not repairable, I just have to nut up and spend nearly $300 to replace it. I got that taken care of, went to go bleed the brakes and end my nightmare, just to see brake fluid dripping from the booster. Now to replace yet another expensive part, the master cylinder. OEM $230. I found a Cardone re-man from O-Reilly's for $90. Still, that sucks. After fixing all leaks, I try to bleed the brakes, still spongy. Not wanting to crawl under the truck again, I take it to a brake shop. They bleed it again, adjust the rear shoes, and adjust the brake pedal. It felt great!, until I got 3 blocks away and the brakes started locking up. I limped back to the brake shop and parked it. By the time they came back out to fix it again, the brakes were completely seized, the truck would not move! They adjusted the pedal again and made the brakes work about as good as they possible can. The pedal is a little soft, I can still occasionally smell my brakes burning from dragging, and I don't think they got all the air out either. Still better than before!, as in, they work the first time I press them. The brake guy almost drove through their garage door. I forgot to tell him to pump the brakes rapidly and use the E-brake to stop, what a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methfinder Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Yeah they look identical but I think the mounting bolts are different, I know on the HB it's only 2 bolts holding it on, if I'm not mistaken the PF has 3? disreguard, i think your right. they did offer 1" bore which is making me think, but with moving right after xmas im not wanting to play around. Anyways to update you guys I am ordering that one I posted, I called and asked them questions very helpful since I'm a first time buyer and the catalog was a bit overwhelming at first. I hope everything goes well since I have heard some story's with mistreated items, knowing the risk it's worth saving over 130$ (lordco $220 rockauto $85 including shipping) get the O-Reilly's cardone re-man. It's a genuine nissan part rebuilt by Cardone. $90 is the best you're going to find. Unless that Rock Auto part is the same one. Still, O Reilly's is way faster. Edited December 19, 2013 by Methfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Methfinder... that ain't normal. I don't know enough about brakes to know what's wrong, but I'd hazard a guess at one of more of your rear brake shoes being knackered and dragging. My brakes aren't perfect (a little play to the pedal since replacing the MC, dunno if it's just the MC or if there's air in the ABS module) but if they were that bad I'd be worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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