jwblue Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I know of the atf thread in this forum. Has anyone had a WD21 that never had the transmission fluid changed? How long did the transmission last and how did it run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92Path_68CJ Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Mine went about 100k without any changes. Started slipping real bad, lost 1st and reverse. Changed it, replaced the little filter, everything was back to normal. About 70-80k miles later everything started to repeat with some crunchy grindy noises. It had so many other issues that we just scrapped the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Not changing any lubricant is idiotic and neglectful. No lubricant can last the lifetime of a vehicle, only the lifetime of the manufacturer warranty which is their intent. Change it, there are no downsides. If it fails shortly after a change, it was going to fail anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwblue Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Mine went about 100k without any changes. Started slipping real bad, lost 1st and reverse. Changed it, replaced the little filter, everything was back to normal. About 70-80k miles later everything started to repeat with some crunchy grindy noises. It had so many other issues that we just scrapped the car. I would love to hear from an engineer or technician from Nissan that developed this vehicle explain why atf changes are not necessary. Edited January 26, 2013 by jwblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwblue Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Not changing any lubricant is idiotic and neglectful. No lubricant can last the lifetime of a vehicle, only the lifetime of the manufacturer warranty which is their intent. Change it, there are no downsides. If it fails shortly after a change, it was going to fail anyway. Is this an implication that Nissan knew the transmission would fail if the atf was not changed? Edited January 26, 2013 by jwblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92Path_68CJ Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) The ATF fluid should be changed regardless. The only reason my pathy went so long without it, was another member of the family who owned it before me did nothing to maintain it. A friend of mine put 350k on his truck's automatic (not nissan) without a rebuild. He attributed it to transmission flushes at every oil change, and flushes before towing his 26 foot toyhauler about 3 or so hours out to the desert, over cajon pass. Edited January 26, 2013 by 92Path_68CJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwblue Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) The ATF fluid should be changed regardless. The only reason my pathy went so long without it, was another member of the family who owned it before me did nothing to maintain it. A friend of mine put 350k on his truck's automatic (not nissan) without a rebuild. He attributed it to transmission flushes at every oil change, and flushes before towing his 26 foot toyhauler about 3 or so hours out to the desert, over cajon pass. So crazy that the public can figure things like this out, but not the manufactures. I think there is something to what Towncivilian is implying about manufacturers wanting vehicles to fail so the owner has to buy another. Edited January 26, 2013 by jwblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo94 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 You get that way more nowadays than before, They were build to last before, well to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyourface1650 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 A transmission flush with every oil change?? The amount of money he poured into the thing was probably well more then 2 new transmissions would have cost.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I would love to hear from an engineer or technician from Nissan that developed this vehicle explain why atf changes are not necessary. Is this an implication that Nissan knew the transmission would fail if the atf was not changed? Where does it say that ATF changes are not required? The factory service manual has a replacement interval of 30k miles. Warranty would be denied if this schedule was not followed with proper fluid used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Some more information which I copied & pasted from my reply on NICO: That suggestion is probably to lower apparent maintenance costs and downtime for the general public. Somewhere around 75% of a transmission's total lifetime wear occurs within the first 5000 miles due to break-in wear and any crud left over from manufacturing (the latter point is becoming less of an issue for newer vehicles since manufacturing processes are always improving). If nothing else, an early change such as a full fluid exchange around 5k miles or at the very least a 30k mile simple drain and fill is arguably the most beneficial for a transmission (or any drivetrain component; differential, transfer case, even power steering) to evacuate break-in wear and prevent wear from compounding. There is absolutely no reason not to change the fluid. The manufacturer is not always correct. The RE4R01A automatic transmission used in many WD21 Pathfinders was relatively weak to begin with at least when compared to the RE4R01A-HD model used in 2001+ Pathfinders and some other Nissan vehicles around those years. The RE4 in WD21s are known for failures resulting from debris and wear material clogging the cooler in the radiator (though in my opinion this is an unreasonable explanation) caused by lack of fluid changes. It is recommended to install an auxiliary cooler bypassing the stock cooler (or in-line with the stock cooler after thoroughly cleaning it out) as well as an in-line transmission filter to help prolong the life of the transmission. Edited January 26, 2013 by Towncivilian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Is this an implication that Nissan knew the transmission would fail if the atf was not changed? I think this is true of any vehicle, only a matter of how quickly. Who would ever consider that the ATF doesn't need changing? Isn't it listed at 30k or 60kintervals in the FSM? The ATF fluid should be changed regardless. A friend of mine put 350k on his truck's automatic (not nissan) without a rebuild. He attributed it to transmission flushes at every oil change, and flushes before towing his 26 foot toyhauler about 3 or so hours out to the desert, over cajon pass. Exactly Tranny flushes every oil change is excessive, even under severe conditions. I'm sure it helped, but he probably would have gotten similar results 1/4 as often... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92Path_68CJ Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) I agree there, our f250 had the trans flushed at 50k miles. Edited January 26, 2013 by 92Path_68CJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwblue Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Who would ever consider that the ATF doesn't need changing? Isn't it listed at 30k or 60kintervals in the FSM? The manual only recommends the atf be changed when when the vehicle is used for towing or extreme driving conditions. It seems like it should always be changed. If towing a trailer, using a camper or a car-top carrier, or driving on rough or muddy roads, change (not just inspect) oil at every 30,000 miles (48,000 km) If I bought the vehicle new, I would trusted the fsm. Absurd. I checked the fsm for a 4 Runner for the earliest date as I could find. Toyota says basically the same thing. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but there is no way, no how these manufacturers do not believe that regularly changing the atf does not benefit the transmission. They want people replacing their vehicles. Edited January 26, 2013 by jwblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Page MA-6 of my 1995 FSM shows the recommended maintenence schedule and the auto tranny has an I every 15,000 miles. I is defined as "Inspect. Correct or replace if necessary." Page MA_21 says "Check fluid for contamination. If fluid is very dark, smells burnt or contains friction materials, check operation of A/T. The next section is on how to change the fluid, the last step of which is #5) Check...If the fluid is still dirty, repeat steps 2-5. I guess they never say to change the fluid per an interval due to variable conditions, but they do say to check it every 15,000k and change it when appropriate and make sure to get all the dirty fluid out. That doesn't sound like ignoring it to me. Honestly, maybe they never even considered that someone would think that ATF doesn't need to be checked/changed. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Maybe it's out of warranty by the time it's a problem... just like there's no service interval for the strut rod bushings. Edited January 27, 2013 by Slartibartfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Transmission fluid will generally last a while, especially the newer formulations. It might last even longer with a fluid cooler. I changed mine like 30,000 miles ago already and it's still like I just put it in. I have a cooler of course. I would give it another 20,000 miles before looking at it again. For automatic transmissions, generally the more power your engine makes, the sooner you have to change the fluid. A Nissan GT-R has an 18,000 mile transmission fluid interval that costs $2,000 just for the fluid. Edited January 28, 2013 by Tungsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Heat is definitely the biggest enemy of automatic transmission fluid and power steering fluid. Once the fluid reaches >230F or so for extended periods of time, breakdown quickly occurs and your fluid won't last long. An additional cooler is a good idea even if you never tow or offroad. Transmissions generally have lousy filtering, if any. The in-pan strainer is more like a rock catcher than any real type of filter. The magnet(s) in the pan should catch a lot of the ferrous wear material, but an additional filter like an in-line Magnefine with its ~30 micron filtering media and powerful donut magnet is extremely beneficial, as is a more conventional filter base with a proper filter that filters down to something like 3 to 10 microns. Adding additional magnets any time the pan is dropped is a good idea too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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