rocky2 Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) I had the same issues without the SFD. I knew something was wrong when I went to put the top caps on the strut and had to compress the coil spring like crazy just to get the top bolt on. (spring longer than OEM). Then I went to put the strut assembly in the pathy and had to have someone step on the control arm to get it low enough to get the knuckle in the lower strut mounting area. Got it all together and was cambered like a bulldog. I used camber bolts as well but they didn't give me enough. Then the top out noise, negative camber and the idea of lengthening the rear shocks due to lift but accepting the front cause there's no longer struts made for our vehicles just bothered me to no end. I'm really amazed that not much attention has been paid on this issue here at NPORA. Suspension terminology: compression-----sag/weight of object being suspended rebound-----------rate of return dampening-------rate at which object travels downward stroke--------------distance shock rod travels within the shock body spring rate--------the weight the spring is rated for Stroke is the issue!! If you use longer springs you change the stroke in your shock and reduce your articulation travel and risk destroying the dampner. Limiting straps are a band aid fix. Sure they work if you jump the vehicle but do not center the shock/strut rod in the shock body during normal use. The extension to the rod that I made only accounted for the stroke centering issue not the camber. IFS set ups are tricky and it would be cool if somebody made an adjustable coil over set up for our pathy's but they don't. Anyway the extension I made broke and the whole idea of extension at this area of the strut seemed risky. I did the suspension (fully adj. coilover kit) on my Civic Si and started thinking the opposite for the pathy. Long story short, Koni inserts ($85 a piece) and spacer at bottom of insert in the strut housing and stroke problem solved. It was easier than it looked and now I got rebound adjustment and a better dampener. So if you use OEM springs, shocks and struts and due a SFD all is good. Our first clue something is up should've been the longer shocks for the rear and no change to the strut. 4x4parts should disclose more of this to buyers. I bought their kit and installed and went WTF! Once I did a 2" SFD with the AC coils and no top spacer at all, the CV angles are damn near straight and the elongation of the top knuckle bolt hole gives me more than enough camber adj. Let me know if you need help with any of this and you can call me and I'll talk your ear off if you want. Rocky Edited November 24, 2012 by rocky2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 So the Koni inserts with the spacer cured the top out & the crazy camber angle? I'd like to put the spacer back until I can get a SFD kit, but it's that friggin' positive camber that stops me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Dude, I'm telling you. Open up or slot the top bolt hole in the strut housing mounting location. I got pics in my write-up. Did the trick I promise. My Skunk2 coilover suspension system for the Honda is set up like this and that is what I copied. Guaranteed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Koni inserts with spacer fixed top out issue Slotted bolt hole at strut/knuckle attachment fixed camber issue 2" SFD with the AC coils fixed CV angles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 So I'm guessing you used the stock bolts in the slotted strut hole & just really bolted them up tight, or did you use some kind of camber bolt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Stock bolts, the bottom hole is completely stock, no modification. The top hole is not widened just made longer on the horizontal plane. The knuckle pivots on the bottom hole and is angularly adjusted by moving the top bolt either in (negative camber) or out (positive camber). Stock bolts tightend up good and I used nylock nuts. No movement at all. I guess you could use gnarled washers or lock washers if you're worried about the possibility of movement in this area. Due a little web searching, quality aftermarket coilover struts use an elongated/slottted top hole just for this purpose I'm describing, ie. camber adjustment. Super high quality race application coilovers even have an adjustment screw in the top kuckle area to use for micro-adjustment of camber angle. I just mark the knuckle and the strut housing and go from there by width of the felt pen marker. Usually 1 mm width= 2 degrees. But eye ball works best, you just might have to adj. it a couple of times. Those camber bolts are a joke IMO. They are smaller in diameter and only give you a couple of degrees adj. I love it how guys say to use 2 one on top and one on bottom. Still weak IMO. With AC coils and top spacers you're just making a longer strut assembly, therefore pushing the control arm down and not substantially raising the body. You got block it Dude ie. SFD to correct CV angles. That's why KRfabs kit has strut blocks as well because they assume stock springs are being used in the front. If we had SAS we would treat it like the rear and put longer springs and longer shocks and callit done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 http://www.intakeparts.com/media/catalog/product/cache/5/image/05c681ca24c0f7558a982e188ace01f9/s/k/sk2-541-05-4750_2.10.jpgThought I would include a site with pic to furthter illustrate the elongated top hole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 http://image.mustangmonthly.com/f/28225109/mump_1008_08_o+macpherson_strut_system+ride_height_adjusted.jpg This what I want for my pathy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Alright that's it, I found the cure to all our ills http://www.airbagit.com/v/vspfiles/photos/FBS-CAD-40-KIT3-2.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoesandsocks Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 is there anyway u would be willing to do this for other memebers this a great idea. And if anyone has anymore questions about the top strut hole wideing contact maximum motorsports they make mustang racing products and actually do this for there line of koni and bilstein shocks the make in house to adjust the camber. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Sure Dude, anything to help. I can walk you thru it on the phone or we can ship things around but seems spendy. I've seen guys use pipe fittings for the bottom spacer http://www.mx6.com/f...stallation.html You can get a longer bolt just about anywhere that stocks a variety of fasteners. I think it is an M10x1.5x80. You'll figure that out easy enough. Follow Koni's instructions and "git er done" The reducer I built at the top of the strut tube was overkill IMHO. But I could fab a couple of those up if you gotta have em. The slotted bolt hole for camber adj. is pretty self explanatory. If you have a hacksaw and drill bits you can get thru this blind folded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoesandsocks Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 i can do the strut insert myself it was more of the collar i would need more than anything and what did u use to actually cut out the original strut just just have done this for mustamngs and lexuses to lower them never to raise it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 You're just cutting the outside of the housing. You're not cutting the strut rod itself. The strut housing was maybe a 1/16 thick. I used a cut off wheel on my angle grinder and it cut like Butter. The hacksaw or pipe cutter method looks easy as well. I left the housing as long as was possible. There is enough interference fit without the collar and the bolt attachment at the bottom is what really holds the insert in the housing. The collar was strictly insurance if you know what I mean. The collar is say 2" tall. The first ID or step is the size of the strut housing diameter and the second ID or step is the diameter of the insert. With a set screw on the side cause I'm anal retentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I am very interested in attempting this! How did it finally work out for you rocky2? I had a plan all figured out, but haven't moved at all on it. One if the things that was a bit of a worry was the topping out issue, which this should ultimately solve! More than damper longevity I think the clunking would get to me and I would go crazy. The adjustablility of the Koni inserts might be a good and bad thing, because I do like to fiddle with things. I too am surprised that no one here at NPORA has found a suitable alternative strut with a longer stroke, considering the top out issue is almost always addressed when people are looking to (or already have) install a lift. I am not sure I want to attack a SFD yet, but eliminating the top out would be great! I actually need to get started ordering parts since winter is upon us and I desperately need new tires, so since I am going to go bigger I'll need the lift at the same time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Doh! Looks like Koni doesn't make them for the 00-04 Pathy . . . BOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) It's working out perfect so far. No puckering the old spincter when hitting a pot hole or "gettin after it" in the dirt. If you know what I mean. No more big clunk! The spring has to be taken off the Koni's in order to adj. You have to push the rod all the down and engage the adjustment mechanism and you can feel it click when you turn the rod. I put mine at the stiffest setting and Love it. So you probably won't be messing around with the adjustment very much. Go for the SFD it really isn't that hard and is definetly worth it. It's really the smartest way to lift an IFS, springs alone cause issues. Slotting the top knuckle hole solved all the positive camber issues due to the AC coils and was easy enough. The 2" SFD keeps the CV angles exceptable as well. I did the AC coils and a 2" SFD and wish that I just went for the 4" KrFabs set up in the first place. I ordered the Pan Hard drop bracket and installed it but it pushed the rear a little to the passenger side. I wish it had multiple holes for positionsand/or lengths (I want to take the bar off and cut it, thread it and make it adjustable to get it perfect. That will be another project.) Got the steering extension coming from Andrew because my stock set-up has a bad u-joint in the steering link and was binding a bit. The etension block a copied from "shift220" worked fine but thought that I should just go with the aftwermarket steering ext. Andrew sells for piece off mind. Replacing the stock set-up was about the same price. No strut spacers as of yet but might look into them as well. So you see that I've pieced it all together and I'm having fun solving alot of problems but all is done for you with the kit. Anybody replacing their struts should go with the Koni's. If you are using the stock springs there would be no need to put a spacer at the bottom or use a collar. Edited December 5, 2012 by rocky2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Just ordered another pair of Koni strut inserts. Gonna keep them around for spares or fab an adjustable coilover set-up. Pics coming soom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 This is an example of my next idea for adjustable struts http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/grn-%20fox%20coil-over%20kits.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Come on boys Give me your 2 cents Let's talk suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick13 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Well I'm sorry I haven't been keeping up with all the topics, but your last post does intrigue me. Thunderbolt and I have talked a bit about why someone doesn't try to come up with a coil-over kit for our SFD R50's. We watch our close friends wheeling 3rd Gen T4R who seem to have both better on-road manners and also flex better off-road. I like your extended strut design and would be interested to see your next creation - an adjustable coilover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 Thanx for your interest I've seen guys cut the lower spring perch off of the stock strut housing, weld the threaded tube extension on to the strut and then use an aftermarket perch springs and top hat/bearing mount. http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-faq-suspension/144248-koni-insert-installation.html the last 2 photos in this write-up are a great example Alot has to be worked out so don't hold your breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 Now this is what I'm talking about. http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-faq-suspension/133312-2nd-gen-illumina-1st-gen-conversion-other-things-how.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 This is a strut spacer that I found on the web. The one I built was slightly different and ended up breaking. But this set-up looks better and will solve the top out issues associated with AC coils. http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/vitara-/-x90/strut-spacers-2-25-machined/prod_79.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Those strut spacers look like the easy answer to the top out problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoesandsocks Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 now that is an idea that i would have never thought of im gonna talk to my machinist at work and get him on this for my truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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