theexbrit Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hi all. Tried to install the 2" AC lift today, what a f*#+ing nightmare! First, 4x4 Parts never mentioned anything about new bump stops for the struts & never sent them with the "kit". I had to go to my Nissan dealer & fork out $40 for 2 new strut bump stops/boots. Second, the camber kit is complete bollocks. $100 for 4 stupid little bolts that have an eliptical edge but are a lot thinner than the oem bolts that mount the strut to the hub assembly. No way I'm putting those flimsy pieces of @!*%e on, they'll break the first bump I go over or move around in the mount so much they'll sheer off anyway. Third, although the strut springs are longer than the OEM springs the struts themselves are to replace the standard 26" OEM replacement struts, not 2 " longer than the OEM struts like they should be. So it doesn't matter how long the springs are, if the new strut is the same height as the original strut how the hell am I getting a 2" lift? Longer springs just mean a harder ride, which brings me to my fourth point of contention. Because the struts are OEM length & the springs are longer than OEM springs, I couldn't compress them enough to get them on the new strut anyway! :rant2: WTF????? The rear springs & shocks look ok & are longer than the OEM shocks & springs, but these front struts are really pissing me off. I have an email into AC & I'm going to call them Monday, anyone else had these kind of issues? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hi all. Tried to install the 2" AC lift today, what a f*#+ing nightmare! First, 4x4 Parts never mentioned anything about new bump stops for the struts & never sent them with the "kit". I had to go to my Nissan dealer & fork out $40 for 2 new strut bump stops/boots. Second, the camber kit is complete bollocks. $100 for 4 stupid little bolts that have an eliptical edge but are a lot thinner than the oem bolts that mount the strut to the hub assembly. No way I'm putting those flimsy pieces of @!*%e on, they'll break the first bump I go over or move around in the mount so much they'll sheer off anyway. Third, although the strut springs are longer than the OEM springs the struts themselves are to replace the standard 26" OEM replacement struts, not 2 " longer than the OEM struts like they should be. So it doesn't matter how long the springs are, if the new strut is the same height as the original strut how the hell am I getting a 2" lift? Longer springs just mean a harder ride, which brings me to my fourth point of contention. Because the struts are OEM length & the springs are longer than OEM springs, I couldn't compress them enough to get them on the new strut anyway! :rant2: WTF????? The rear springs & shocks look ok & are longer than the OEM shocks & springs, but these front struts are really pissing me off. I have an email into AC & I'm going to call them Monday, anyone else had these kind of issues? Yeah, i hear you dude, i have yet to install mine, but guys on here have figured out ways to get around most of your issues. First, not too sure on this, but maybe some one else has a worth while answer. Second, camber bolts, i agree 4X4 is a HUGE rip off when it comes to their stuff and shipping, is a complete joke, $80 minimum to ship anything to me. Check out this thread http://npora.ipbhost...showtopic=32631 Explains where to get the right camber bolts that everyone seems to happy with (Hint; Rockauto, has them for $11 a pair) Third, Yes, unfortunately the stock struts dont go any longer, couple of guys on here are working on that. But to get that full 2" up front check out these guys http://www.nx4indust...om/r50susp.html Its a spacer kit that will lift the front end to match the rear, and yes i know, its more money, but ITS SO WORTH IT WHEN ITS DONE, Fouth, i think you if you can rent a second spring compressor kit, that, i think does the trick. Another thing worth mentioning is you need to get your wheels in order, with by replacing them or getting spacers. With the new lift, you could run into the chance of having some rubbing issues, so you need to push the wheel a little farther out from the center of the car. Basically the end result is getting a 3.75 inch backspace. so you can get new wheels, (CHECK OUT PROCOMP, PM for details on that) Second option (cheaper) is to get spacers, and you'll hear a ton of guys saying they mess with bearings, and cause you to get pregnant, but thats for you to choose. One guy on here has had spacers on his stock wheels for a long time now (two years now, think), he uses these. http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_1626wt_1139 So i hope i answered all your questions, and just post up in here if you have any others. Post pictures when your down, i love seeing guy's newly lifted rigs!! -Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hey Kyle, thanks for the info! It helped out a lot. One point I still have is, if you have to use spacers to get the front lift what's the point of buying the longer springs as opposed to just using heavy duty but same length springs? The longer springs just mean it's going to be a rock hard ride because they're compressed more. Maybe I should send these damn strut springs back & just get some regular length HD ones. PS. Where did you get the swing out tire carrier from? My 96 has all the bolts & locking latches, etc, but not the actual tire carrier frame. The spare is underneath. PPS. I'm going to steer away from wheel spacers as I don't want to get pregnant! :laugh: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esy Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 i didn't bother with new bumpstops. didn't need them. what boots are you talking about? the dust boots around the strut? if so, those don't really matter a whole lot unless you're doing a bunch of offroading. i didn't bother with a camber kit either. however, i am on the OME HD/MD lift, but it didn't affect me a whole lot. it probably gets worse on the AC lift, i wouldn't know. there aren't any longer travelling struts, that i'm aware of. to prevent the strut from topping out, you'll have to get straps to prevent that. there are a few guys that fabbed some up without getting the spacers or an SFD. you'll learn to deal with the strut topping out over time by either dealing with the clunk/bang that is associated with it, or by going over speed bumps and stuff slower. i've done the latter. when my brother and i lifted our trucks, we just paid the local Pep Boys to put the spring and strut together because i've had a few encounters when lowering my past vehicles that i'd rather not re-live. i'll let those guys do that for $40 of my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hey Kyle, thanks for the info! It helped out a lot. One point I still have is, if you have to use spacers to get the front lift what's the point of buying the longer springs as opposed to just using heavy duty but same length springs? The longer springs just mean it's going to be a rock hard ride because they're compressed more. Maybe I should send these damn strut springs back & just get some regular length HD ones. PS. Where did you get the swing out tire carrier from? My 96 has all the bolts & locking latches, etc, but not the actual tire carrier frame. The spare is underneath. PPS. I'm going to steer away from wheel spacers as I don't want to get pregnant! :laugh: I think the point of the new spring is to push the car up with a heavier duty spring. but as you quickly found out, it only pushes the car as high up as the strut will let it. I say keep them, almost everyone i have talked to with the AC lift, seems to liking it. The swing came with my car, and its a huge pain, but it looks sweet, the advantage is im going to be mounting an air compressor and tank where the factory spare would go. My bet would be to just head over to a local junk yard. see what they have. Way cheaper than trying to ship it anywhere, it weighs A TON!!! -Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) i didn't bother with new bumpstops. didn't need them. what boots are you talking about? the dust boots around the strut? if so, those don't really matter a whole lot unless you're doing a bunch of offroading. i didn't bother with a camber kit either. however, i am on the OME HD/MD lift, but it didn't affect me a whole lot. it probably gets worse on the AC lift, i wouldn't know. there aren't any longer travelling struts, that i'm aware of. to prevent the strut from topping out, you'll have to get straps to prevent that. there are a few guys that fabbed some up without getting the spacers or an SFD. you'll learn to deal with the strut topping out over time by either dealing with the clunk/bang that is associated with it, or by going over speed bumps and stuff slower. i've done the latter. when my brother and i lifted our trucks, we just paid the local Pep Boys to put the spring and strut together because i've had a few encounters when lowering my past vehicles that i'd rather not re-live. i'll let those guys do that for $40 of my money. My concern without the bump stops is there's nothing to stop the strut bottoming out, this will drastically shorten the life of the strut if it happens too often I'm told. I do a lot of desert off roading & the friggin' dust gets everywhere so I'm going to use the boots. Good idea about getting a shop to fit the springs to the strut though, with the AC strut springs the compression is tremendous!! I wouldn't fancy something coming loose & the spring flying off from the tension. That would really ruin your day if it hit you Edited April 1, 2012 by theexbrit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erathge Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 My concern without the bump stops is there's nothing to stop the strut bottoming out, this will drastically shorten the life of the strut if it happens too often I'm told. With the stiffer AC springs, and the already more extended strut (due to its oem length, and 2" spring) i don't think bottoming out is much of a worry.. But someone correct me if im wrong. Topping out on the other hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clkindred Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Having installed my AC lift a few months ago, I can say bottoming out with the stiffer springs is highly unlikly unless you're jumping the truck. Topping out is just somthing that will happen when you hyper extend the front suspension, it is an annoyance that any lifted rig with independant front suspension will encounter to some degree or another. As for getting any lift from struts that are no longer than the factory ones, it comes down to how much of the suspension's travel is sag. What I mean is, let's say that the suspension has 8 inches of travel max, from the factory the vehicle rides in between this 8 inches at let's say 5 inches. So from the normal ride height you are afforded 5 inches of upward travel, and 3 inches of downward travel of the wheel. The stiffer springs brings the static ride height higher by two inches, so now you are at 7 inches up, and just 1 inch down. In other words, the factory suspension always had the ability to extend and let the vehicle ride higher, but the springs are soft and the truck's weight smooshes it down. Sorry for the long post, or if none of this made any sense, or if I am patronizing anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverPath Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The topping out will soften over time, however you can add limiting straps to the front so it doesnt go bang. I am fairly certain I saw this done on Fleury's rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Some of the issues described by the OP aren't the fault of 4x4parts, they're based on using the wrong tools, incorrect expectations about the product, and lack of understanding about the IFS design of the R50. Many of you still forget that the strut's travel range is what defines the maximum extension of the front suspension. A longer strut will allow the front suspension to drop lower, which will result in exceeding the operating range of the CV joints, and break them. I bet a bunch of you would have gotten really upset if you'd been sold a lift kit that included longer struts, only to find out that when they exceed the safe operating range of the CV, you end up grenading your CV axles and start filing complaints against the vendor for selling you parts that break your truck. As for the springs, yeah they're a pain to install. My first attempt at installing them with cheap-o spring compressors didn't go so well. Since I don't have a lot of confidence in those cheap spring compressors, I ended up purchasing a used wall-mount strut compressor on ebay for about $300. I've used it several times already for both my own struts and a couple of friends' vehicles. Edited April 3, 2012 by XPLORx4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Having installed my AC lift a few months ago, I can say bottoming out with the stiffer springs is highly unlikly unless you're jumping the truck. Topping out is just somthing that will happen when you hyper extend the front suspension, it is an annoyance that any lifted rig with independant front suspension will encounter to some degree or another. As for getting any lift from struts that are no longer than the factory ones, it comes down to how much of the suspension's travel is sag. What I mean is, let's say that the suspension has 8 inches of travel max, from the factory the vehicle rides in between this 8 inches at let's say 5 inches. So from the normal ride height you are afforded 5 inches of upward travel, and 3 inches of downward travel of the wheel. The stiffer springs brings the static ride height higher by two inches, so now you are at 7 inches up, and just 1 inch down. In other words, the factory suspension always had the ability to extend and let the vehicle ride higher, but the springs are soft and the truck's weight smooshes it down. Sorry for the long post, or if none of this made any sense, or if I am patronizing anyone. That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Many of you still forget that the strut's travel range is what defines the maximum extension of the front suspension. A longer strut will allow the front suspension to drop lower, which can result in exceeding the operating range of the CV joints, and break them. Since I don't have a lot of confidence in those cheap spring compressors to do a good job with the really strong 2" lift springs in the Pathy strut, I ended up purchasing a used wall-mount strut compressor on ebay for about $300. I've used it several times already for both my own struts and a couple of friends' vehicles. Some of the issues described by the OP aren't the fault of 4x4parts, they're based on using the wrong tools, incorrect expectations about the product, and lack of understanding about the IFS design of the R50. I have to say, you're right. I used to be a mechanic years ago & I surprised myself by having false expectations I figured it's a 2 hour job, not thinking about compressing the springs! I've got it in a shop at the moment, they have a huge air powered spring compressor so they shouldn't have any problems. I' getting them to install the lift as I don't have the time. To anyone wanting to do this on their own I'd say get a spring compressor for the back springs, they seem like they compress a lot easier, but have a shop fit the springs to your struts for a few $'s. It's worth it as another poster said. I also agree about my original post. I'm not going to use the bumps stops, just some boots to help keep out dust. I guess I owe 4x4 parts an apology Just out of curiosity, is anyone using the camber adjustment bolts from 4x4 parts? Maybe they're not such pieces of crap after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just out of curiosity, is anyone using the camber adjustment bolts from 4x4 parts? Maybe they're not such pieces of crap after all. I'm using them and have no complaints at all! They have survived mild rock crawling and deep mud. I just climed a crushed Nissan van yesterday and the only thing that buckled was the van! Of course the van was no more of a challenge than the culvert at the end of my driveway but, it sounds pretty cool, huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 The Ingalls Camber Bolts are made using stronger material than the stock bolts, which compensates for their smaller diameter. Surprisingly, I found that I do not need them to correct camber on my Pathy. I would begin by not installing the bolts, rather than automatically assuming you need them, and visually assess the alignment. If your camber is too positive, replace the top bolts with the camber bolts, with the cam facing inboard (towards the body). If it's still not corrected, replace the bottom bolts with the camber bolts, with the cam facing outboard (towards the wheel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow4me Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If the cams are facing up or down are they at zero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If the cams are facing up or down are they at zero? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynomax Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I'm using them and have no complaints at all! They have survived mild rock crawling and deep mud. I just climed a crushed Nissan van yesterday and the only thing that buckled was the van! Of course the van was no more of a challenge than the culvert at the end of my driveway but, it sounds pretty cool, huh? I know you did your own front coils, as I am planning this weekend, did you have any issues compressing the springs enough to reassemble the front strut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I know you did your own front coils, as I am planning this weekend, did you have any issues compressing the springs enough to reassemble the front strut? If you have the AC front lift springs you will need a big, wall mounted spring compressor. We tried a couple of the hand tightened compressors that you can buy at places like Pep Boys, etc, & they just didn't cut it. In fact, the thread started stripping & it was getting dangerous. There's a tremendous amount of energy in the compressed spring & if the compressor were to give or slip off it would take your head off or punch a hole right through you. Don't mean to sound dramatic but it can be very dangerous when you're dealing with that much force. Just have your local auto shop mount the springs on the struts for you, most will do it for $40-50. The rear springs are ok but be careful of the brake line, at full extension it is pretty tight & could snap if the axle were to drop down a hole or something when you're 4 wheeling. We bent the bracket that holds the brake line to the body above the diff to give the line a bit more play. My lift is all installed now & raised my 96 up a heck of a lot. In fact the 31" tires look a tad small now!! :laugh: I'll get some photos up to show what I mean. Edited April 4, 2012 by theexbrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I know you did your own front coils, as I am planning this weekend, did you have any issues compressing the springs enough to reassemble the front strut? Listen to theexbrit ... I will never attempt to do them myself again. We had a near mishap using not just one but, two spring compressors. It is worth the $40-$50 to have the struts assembled for you. The rear springs were amazingly easy to do. I just used two jacks to maneuver the axel (watching out for the break line) and pretty much put them in place by hand using just one compressor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 To avoid overstretching the rear brake line while the rear shocks are disconnected so you can install the rear springs, you can unbolt the rear brake distribution block from the axle to give it a little more slack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Ok, here's a brief overview of the strut replacement for the AC 2" lift. First remove the wheel & disconnect the brake line holders from the strut............ The top brake line holder has a metal spring clip that can be removed by using a flat head screw driver to pry it off, the bottom brake line holder is a simple 10mm nut....... Next remove the brake sensor wire from the strut, this just pulls out of the holder....... Move these brake lines out of the way..... Disconnect the TOP sway bar link only, you do not need to disconnect the bottom one..... Put a support under the wheel hub & then undo the two bolts that hold the bottom of the strut to the hub assembly..... The hub & axle will then lower away from the strut & the strut will be hanging by the three nuts at the strut mount. Remove the three nuts that hold the top of the strut mount to the fender........ Have someone put their arms into the wheel well & hold the strut as it will drop down when the last nut is undone..... Remove the strut from the wheel well & hopefully you've supported the hub to avoid stretching the brake line like this. The rear brake line will also stretch like this if you don't undo the mounting block as Xplorx4 said....... Do not use one of this type of spring compressor, it will remove the old spring but will not compress the new spring enough to allow you to fit it to the strut. This is where you take the springs & struts to an auto shop & have them fit the springs to the struts. Note new the elliptical hub to strut bolts in the top right hand corner. These are only needed if you have problems adjusting the camber to spec. ......... Edited April 4, 2012 by theexbrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) You will need to reuse the spring "cap" from the old struts as the AC kit does not come with them. There is a rubber seat inside that the top of the spring sits in...... Note the beaten up old strut boot & bump stop....... This is what I had to buy from the dealer as again, the AC kit does not come with them, but I'm taking them back as everyone has said you don't need them because the new spring will not allow any bottoming out unless you jump your Pathy over some buses Again, you don't really need these but use them if you want....... If you decide to use the bumpstop/boot, it fits into the top cap like this...... Here's the old strut mount with the spring top cap on the bottom...... Anyway, once you've got the springs mounted to the strut (with your new mounts if you bought them) then replacing the strut is just the reverse of this procedure. Don't forget to remount the brake lines & double check tightness on all the bolts you've undone & done back up again. Sorry this was a bit brief & "choppy" but I thought it might give people a bit more of an insight. As devonianwalk said, the rears are pretty easy & don't really need explaining. Edited April 4, 2012 by theexbrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow4me Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 How do you be sure to get the notch in the "spring cap" pointed towards the engine properly? Seems like it would be pretty hard to get it right, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 There's an "L" & "R" stamped on the mount, just make a note of the postition of these letters befoe you remove the strut, & the spring only fits into the strut bottom one way, there's a little lip that the end of the spring fits into & the top spring cap has this lip that the spring fits into also so it's pretty hard to get it wrong. This is on my 96 of course, I'm not sure if it's different on other years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The strut assembly was the same on mine. We dabbed a spot of paint to remind us of the orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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