1988 Pathfinder - Considering buying, need advice on engine

[ColonelColt]

Link to Craigslist ad: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/1905062846.html

 

Greetings. I'm currently in the market for an older vehicle and I've either come down to getting a Toyota truck or a Nissan Pathfinder. Since Toyotas are much coveted here (read: pricey even in old age) in Alaska or driven into the ground, that's not an option right now. I've discovered, on the other hand, that older Pathfinders are apparently pretty common and way more available price-wise. My intent is to get one and do a lot of mechanical overhauling on it if I keep it in the long run and turn it into an offroad vehicle once I get something less gas-guzzling to commute with.

 

My brother and I found this one on Craigslist and discovered it's right down the road from where he lives at out in a kind of rural area. We inspected it in person last week and the thing is honestly in really great shape for its age and if I recall had around 140,000 miles on it. No visible or known damage, really good interior. It had to be jump started due to a dead battery which isn't surprising. What we know and found out about the vehicle: It's a V6 VG30i (we believe) with a five speed manual that seems to have a good clutch. The power steering in it is is either shot or needs fluid, we're told it needs a new pump. Not a big issue since my brother and I know a guy who has a parts Pathfinder sitting in his driveway and the only problem with it is a seized engine. That and I could simply buy another one that's beat up for a few hundred and get what I need off of it. During the test drive the dash indicators weren't working but were lighting up except once when I rounded a corner at some speed and they all started working properly so we think this is a loose connection.

 

The biggest problem is the idle. When the engine is running with no load on it, it revs up and down constantly and pretty rapidly. Now, that could just be a timing/idle issue but we're both completely unfamiliar with these engines so we're not sure. One of our concerns is when it's coming down from revving up there's a clacking sound... Not exactly like a cylinder knocking or like the timing's off but it's there and doesn't seem to do it when it's revving itself up or driving. Could be a sticking lifter or valve. It drives and runs fine with the transmission in gear. Again, we simply don't know. My brother is heading over there tomorrow with a fresh battery and oil to dump into it to see if that quietens it down at all. Maybe the steering pump being out is putting drag on the rest of the system causing the engine revving.

 

I can probably talk the people down to $500 for the vehicle since the house its parked at actually belongs to the owners of both who are currently in Idaho somewhere and obviously don't care that much about the vehicle if they rented the house out to the current family and said "Try to sell it for us." regarding the Pathfinder. If I end up acquiring the vehicle, we can do all of the labor ourselves and get either new or used parts to install but we're mostly worried about the revving and clacking noise. If anyone has any advice, comments, or a big checklist of "If it's doing this, do this." or the service manual, we'd really appreciate it. Next time I'm up there I can take a video of the vehicle with the engine running if that would really help diagnose the issue.

 

A few last questions:

 

Is this an interference engine?

Does it use a chain for the timing?

Is there any reason I couldn't get an engine out of an automatic to install in the manual as a straight swap?

 

Thanks again! - Colt

Edited September 10, 2010 by ColonelColt

[Kingman]

Welcome man! Alaska, eh? Lucky!

 

First off, the VGs use a timing belt that requires being replaced every 60,000 miles and it's also wise to replace the water pump at the same time. This leads to it being an interference engine, if that belt snaps it will likely ruin the engine.

 

The idle racing is probably the MAF sensor and wiring, which is found on the driver's side of the throttle body. Over time the wires become brittle or corroded and loose connection. Mine did the same thing.

 

Here's a link for a pretty in-depth description of all the TBI components and what they do. http://npora.ipbhost...=1entry416253

 

The lifters are hydraulic and if it's been sitting for a while it wouldn't surprise me if they're a little dry on oil. Making sure it's full and a good flush/change should help some. Running it low on oil will also risk severely damaging the lower end components since the bearing tolerances are so tight, and they are aluminum and gall very easy. When I first got my Pathfinder and changed the oil, it came out as black nasty sludge. Some 20,000 miles later at 194K it spun a rod bearing. Oil is very important.

 

Power steering pumps are easy to replace, but you must flush the entire system at least twice to get all the debris out. If not, you'll run into problems with it again down the road. I somehow managed to snap the shaft inside of the pump, and since it was such a clean break I didn't focus too hard on flushing. It bit me in the ass within 3 months. I'm getting close to having to replace the pump again, but this time do some serious flushing and/or replace the entire system. It can be expensive at first but is less expensive in the long run.

 

There's no reason why you cannot install an automatic engine into a manual chassis. There is one thing that must be taken care of though, and that's a flex plate locating bushing/spacer that's pressed into the back of the automatic blocks. This must be removed and a pilot bushing installed, I installed an engine from an automatic '84 300ZX and forgot to do this. What the pilot bushing does is support the front of the transmission input shaft and aligns it throughout the transmission. Without it, gears will grind and it will eventually destroy the transmission. I had to pull the motor again and do this, all over a $2 part. That bushing has a tendency to rust in and from the factory it's pressed in with a lot of force.

 

Another cause of noise/ticking is the exhaust manifold studs snapping. If this happens it will tick for a while until warm and subside, but sometimes won't go away. Drilling out the hole and extracting the broken studs is the only real fix.

 

One last suggestion, search around here for some information. It's best to use the advanced feature and select only the topic titles, as well as include a + between specific words to keep results more precise. Good luck!

Edited September 10, 2010 by Kingman

[silverton]

Kingman pretty much covered it. for $500 bucks, you couldn't go wrong! Even looks like it has a matching Lego wheel on the tire carrier instead of the useless factory spare they included with the SE trucks.

[JamesRich]

Check the frame for rot before you buy it! I can't believe they forgot that.

James

[Northernpathy]

Check the frame for rot before you buy it! I can't believe they forgot that.

James

 

Check the frame using a screwdriver to be exact. Can look nice until you end up poking right through it.

 

Looks good. I would buy it for that price.

[ColonelColt]

Thanks for the replies, especially Kingman. Been very helpful pointing us in the direction we need to do research on.

 

I've heard that there's a kit to change out the 60,000 mile timing belt to a 100,000+ one. Are these available anywhere?

 

Is there a PDF manual for this generation of Pathfinder online? Trying to search for "manual" on here simply finds endless posts about transmissions.

 

What size tire/rim do these come with stock? I'm wondering if my current vehicle can donate its almost new snow tires to the project.

 

How are you *supposed* to shift into four wheel drive on these? On my current vehicle you simply push a button and it automatically locks the center differential, too easy. I'm going back to look at it tomorrow and want to try the four wheel drive to make sure there isn't a major hidden issue.

 

Oddly enough, the biggest problem we might run into obtaining this vehicle is a legal one: The original title was lost somewhere and the people we've been dealing with are simply the family renting the property/house from the owners of the vehicle who asked them to try to sell it and they've moved out of state. Obviously having them download the duplicate title form and have them mail it to the DMV up here and then sign it over and mail it back up to me would be the easiest way. The other way seems to be something called "surety bonding" which my brother and I completely unfamiliar with and the DMV website isn't too helpful on the matter. If we're reading it right, I owe the state 1.5 times the "fair market value" simply for them to hold onto for three years. Kelley Blue Book gives this thing a value of $1180 for a 1990 model (oldest it goes back to) and NADA gives it a value of $3000, both in fair condition due to the mechanical issues. There's no way we're giving the state that much money for a vehicle of this age just to get the title. However, the one time we did talk to the guy trying to sell it, he was told by the owners that we simply have to have it "bonded" which would cost around $25. So I'm wondering if the surety bond is not the same "cash deposit" the state wants. If anyone has any information on this it would also be extremely useful otherwise this vehicle is a total pass and will probably sit until it rots out over the winter. Thanks again.

[Kingman]

I've never heard of a "kit" to change the belt sprockets, but the difference is the '86.5-'93s use a square tooth style, and the '94+ use a round tooth. I believe all is needed for the swap is the cam sprockets and the crankshaft sprocket. However, Nissan put out 6 different crank snouts which complicates things quite a bit.

 

There's no FSM for a TBI Pathfinder online that I'm aware of, but there is an FSM available for a 1994 online at www.pdftown.com. Some things will be similar, but a lot is different between the TBI and MPFI injection systems.

 

235/75/15 or 31x10.50x15. Lug pattern is 6x5.5. Toyota uses the same pattern, so wheels are interchangeable. Older GMs do as well, but their hubs are smaller in size.

 

4-wheel is engaged by pulling the lever next to the gear shifter back. It's all manual linkage. A somewhat common problem is when the 4-wheel drive hasn't been used in a long time, the linkage arms rust and bind up making it very difficult to move.

[nismothunder]

You have to be fully stopped to engage the 4wheel drive though,they say they can be shifted into 4x up to 25mph,but if you try it you'll get a bunch of bad grinding noises,if your in low you have to stop,but it in neutral and then shift,and you have to back up to get it to shift out of 4 wheel althogether.

[nismothunder]

Also,the frame rust,your state just sands right?In the winter you dont salt your roads?If thats the case it shouldnt be a major problem,but check just the same because the truck may have come from a bad state like minnesota...

[ColonelColt]

Thanks for the replies, again. We do "salt" up here along with mostly sand but I don't think it's normal salt and I don't think it's used as severely as it is in places like Minnesota. We're all trained to pilot polar bears at a young age and don't need the salt and sand for better driving. I was asking about the stopped/moving thing for the four wheel drive. My RAV4 just hast he button and you're supposed to be stopped, there is no four high/low. My brother tested the four wheel drive and he says it seems to work perfectly to him but he's not as familiar with manual transmission and offroad vehicles. That is something I should clarify: the tires would be coming off of a 2000 RAV4, not a Toyota pickup truck, I don't know if that would make any difference mounting them to the Pathfinder's rims.

 

Anyway, my brother was there looking at it again today after adding about a quart of oil to it and wiring in a known good battery. The pictures are below and the video link is first. Keep in mind the engine isn't really that noisy but he was sticking his iPhone into the engine compartment on purpose. Most of the body is in as good a shape as the pictures show, a few rust spots here and there but overall the thing is in great shape for being a 1988 from Alaska.

 

Youtube video: Nissan Pathfinder Engine Noises

 

Is this an original Nissan guard or some aftermarket part that fits really well? What about the lower lights?

 

As you can see, it's mostly just dirty but there's nothing dangling or worn horribly.

 

 

The paint is this good all around for the most part, still shiny and uniform.

 

 

Anyway, let me know what you guys think. I'm going to visit it tomorrow and take more pictures. If I can get the legal hash settled and talk them down a bit to $500 due to having to reregister and get it IMed, I think it would be a great driver after some needed maintenance on the engine by my brother and I. Oh yeah, what's the difference between the SE and XE models? I can't seem to find anything except that one might be a couple of inches taller than the other.

Edited September 12, 2010 by ColonelColt

[Kingman]

The truck looks good, and I think what I'm hearing is a really bad exhaust leak. Didn't sound like anything really mechanical but I can't tell too well from the video.

[JamesRich]

I agree with Kingman it sound like just an exhaust leak and the body looks great too. But if the owners can't get you a title walk away! I checked on this before I got my truck, Craig's list is full of ads for pathys with no title. If the original owner won't get it for you I don't think there is a legal way for you to get it. A friend of mine even had the vehicle taken from him after he put a lot of work in it. The cops show up and say you are in possession of a stolen vehicle so either give it up or come to jail, then your standing there with nothing but a dumb look on your face and no vehicle. For the right price it would be good to part out but don't try to get a title yourself. If they really want to sell it they will get a title.

James

[ennacac]

In Wisconsin, the original owner can apply for a lost title from the DMV, it will then be sent to them and then they can send it to you.

 

Tom

[adamzan]

That is definitely an exhaust leak. That is what my manifolds used to sound like before I had them fixed.

[ColonelColt]

Don't worry, unless I can get the real and legal title in my hand, I'm not handing them money. Or figure out this surety bonding thing. Is a manifold/exhaust leak hard to fix? I'm about to head up there to examine it myself in person some more and I'll try to get a better video, including a walk around.

[Kingman]

One thing you can do, at least here in Washington, is go to the DMV/DOL with the owner and have them file for a lost title. They will then have it on record, and if you provide them with a bill of sale signed by both parties there's nothing to dispute.

[ColonelColt]

Too bad the owners are in Idaho. I told the guy who's renting the property that we'd take it if he could contact them and have the owners fill out the online lost title form and send it in then sign over the duplicate title to me and I can pay them. We're still going to the DMV tomorrow to interrogate them on what else we can do and we'll see what happens. I took some other pictures for your viewing pleasure. It turns out there is a bit more rust than we were aware of but nothing too major as far as we can tell. We did crawl around and under the vehicle with a screwdriver stabbing it vigorously. The rust spots are both in the body at the rear of the front wheel wells between them and the door recesses. Someone at some point decided the best way to solve this problem was to use spray insulation foam to cover both sides... Which obviously didn't work too well. I tried to take a picture but with the very bright sunlight and the location of the rust, it didn't turn out too well. Is there any way to remove the doors? It looks like you don't simply unbolt them from the body but I could be mistaken.

 

 

 

This picture might be upside down as I don't recall if it was the right or left but I think right.

 

Very clean and well taken care of interior which, to me, points to the fact that the engine has probably been maintained decently over the years.

 

Interior of the air intake is very clean as well.

 

Jumping it off with my current RAV4L which is a great vehicle but not what I want anymore.

 

Zoom, zoom.

 

Looking at the vehicles side by side, my brother and I don't think the rims are actually the same size. They might fit the same lug pattern but he's pretty sure the Toyota uses 16" rims and the Nissan 15"s which doesn't really help me stick my spare winter tires on the Nissan's rims. If anyone knows the actual rim size for the Nissan, I'd like to know. Thanks again guys, hope these pictures help someone else out in the future too.

 

My brother and I also came to the conclusion, after I started jumping on it, that the really low and wedged shaped protrusion on the front of the brush guard is either to mow down trees or to mount a winch on. Then each one of us, six footish 200+ pound guys, got on each running bar/step beside the doors and started jumping up and down on them and rocking the whole thing back and forth. The suspension is fine. That's what you get for "We're just running down the road on an errand, we'll be back soon." and leaving us alone with it for an hour with a screwdriver and the keys.

Edited September 13, 2010 by ColonelColt

[Kingman]

Rim size on a WD21 is 15x7 (31x10.50x15) or 15x6 (237/75/R15). I believe both run a factory backspacing of 3.75", however it's been disputed a few times on here.

 

Lug pattern is 6x5.5 for both.

 

The "lego" SE wheels that are on right now, are the 15x7s meant to have the 31s on them.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Kingman

[ColonelColt]

By the way, it might amuse you for me to point out that I'm actually a diehard Toyota fan. However, cost, availability, and other issues have lead me to this end. So if I get this vehicle, you'll have helped convert someone from the enemy camp. Unless it blows up, then you'll all be put up against the wall.

[Northernpathy]

By the way, it might amuse you for me to point out that I'm actually a diehard Toyota fan.

 

Its okay. No one is perfect. We will forgive you