adamzan Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) I used a funnel that had a tube attached, with a valve, to fill the trans through the dipstick. It didn't take that long actually. This one on the left: It cost me about 6 bucks at princess auto in Ottawa. I think harbor freight is a similar us store? Edited August 13, 2009 by adamzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) I had some Tygon (Clear) Tubing - the stuff you can buy in any Hardware Store now. Am Siphoning the Fluid in...I have the time...it is taking about two quarts per hour. Note to Readers - Edited in from when I had finished (8/16/09 9:15 AM).... I overfilled the AT and had to siphon some Fluid back out. So....clamp the Siphon with a pair of gas pliers with a Rubber Band around the handle and check the level every quart or so...you cannot judge how much was left in there ! End of note. According to the Chilton Bible this beast takes Nine Quarts ! DoctorBill Edited August 16, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 did you do the ol' gas siphon style on that A/T fluid? Or use a special pump thing....cause it doesn't sound very healthy! lawl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) It is 8:50 PM and I started the second gallon bottle of AT Fluid - 4 hours / gallon. I did the old fashioned siphon thing. Suck on the tube until the fluid gets over the hump and down below the level in the bottle. After that, gravity keeps it running. This stuff is so thick and the siphon tube is only about 3 mm ID, so I have ample time to get the Tygon Tube into the AT Dipstick tube and down into it as far as it would go before it comes out the end. The siphon had emptied at 9 PM, so I wiped it off with a Kleenex and didn't get very much Fluid in my mouth - just enough to taste - uuuum, good...! One drop orally versus how much absorbed thru my hands and arms when I got hosed by the vehicle. I spit it out - wouldn't you ?! I smoke cigars, so a drop of AT Fluid doesn't bug me too much - Like Bill Clinton, I didn't swallow....Ooops, wrong person! By tomorrow morning, all I'll need to do is add the last quart plus any in the bottom of the two gallon jugs. Then I can start 'er up and make sure I didn't screw the pooch somehow. Then - who's next ? My wife's '97 Suzuki Sport Sidekick, my daughter's '03 Kia Rio, my '93 Geo Metro, or my '90 Jeep Cherokee ? Mow the lawn. Roundup the weeds. Prepare my chemistry class packet for this Fall Quarter, go to the pistol range, reload some rounds, take stuff to the dump...on and on. Each one needs my tender loving care... I am blessed with work - nothing is worse than being bored. DoctorBill PS - Question: What is the fluid amount difference between the lower and upper mark on the AT Dipstick - one quart ? Edited August 14, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Yeah, approximately a quart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 PS - Question: What is the fluid amount difference between the lower and uppermark on the AT Dipstick - one quart ? I could have sworn it was a pint (I looked it up a few months ago) but I don't have my manual available to verify... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhardison Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I've watched your post for the last few weeks and I just wanted to put my 2 pennies in for all your work documenting the process. I used to get stuck writing some training manuals with pictures and screen captures and I know what kind of work goes into something like that. So all I can say is kudos to you Dr. Bill. I'm so thankfull the previous owner of my Path had the belts done and provided me with the receipts so I've got about 50,000 miles before I have to start worrying about it. Good thing too because I'm not a good enough mechanic to do it myself. I got tired and confused watching you do it! No, when the times come I won't need a wrench, I'll need a shot of Crown and a Visa with $800 worth of room on the credit limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) This morning a total of about 6 to 7 quarts had siphoned in. The dipstick has fluid about half way up the stick. I figured there was probably air inside all those places where the old fluid had been pumped out when I drained the AT onto the ground and later into a bucket. So, taking a chance, I ran the engine for about three seconds and rechecked the dipstick - level had not dropped. Ran engine ten seconds - level had not dropped. I have no idea how long it takes the AT to pump out any AIR inside the Unit. Seconds or a few minutes ? If the AT Oil Pump is centrifugal, it may be "unprimed" and just spinning AIR. If it is a piston type pump - it should move even air and get going quickly. I just don't know - I am in abject awe of Automatic Transmissions - they are like magic to me. Like Captain Kirk's Phaser would seem to a twelfth century Viking Raider..... I can siphon some of the Fluid out from where I put it in, but it seems to me that there should be a lot more room for fluid in there considering how much came out. Then there is the empty New Hayden Cooler to fill up - that should fill in two seconds ! Does anyone who KNOWS AT's - know if it will damage the AT if I run it with fluid halfway up the dipstick ? It is in Park (Neutral) so no LOAD is on it. If there is a lot of AIR in there and the level drops way BELOW the dipstick in a few second, isn't THAT worse than what I have now.... I doubt the AT is over filled, just has a lot of AIR where there should be fluid and it needs to flush the air....but I am worried to run it this way for any length of time. The engine is cold, so it is idling at high RPM's... A thought - Since the AT is just a device with a pump (centrifugal ?) that finally empties into a "sump" that is open to the air (via the dipstick tube - and isn't there a breather tube also?), how could it build up pressure anywhere inside the transmission ? Wouldn't it just pump out thru the dipstick tube ? In an engine it may be bad to overfill since the crankshaft and piston rods would be hitting the oil, whereas here there are no up and down piston rods flying about... Opinions ? How have other folks handled this situation ? Just don't want to do something DUMB again....! WTF - it is 10:20 AM and instead of waiting for opinions, I started to siphon some fluid out the same way I siphoned it in...only into a peanut butter jar... ....Peanut Butter wouldn't hurt the AT - would it.... DoctorBill Edited August 14, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 It is in Park (Neutral) so no LOAD is on it. When checking the level of ATs, I have always seen it recommended to cycle from park down through reverse, neutral, all the gears (pausing a few seconds in each one) and back to park in the same manner. It could be that by not doing this you are not filling passages and cavities that have been drained. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) When checking the level of ATs, I have always seen it recommended to cycle from park down through reverse, neutral, all the gears (pausing a few seconds in each one) and back to park in the same manner. It could be that by not doing this you are not filling passages and cavities that have been drained. B Ahhh....so...I did not know that. You see, I have had almost always stick shifts. Thanks for that bit of information ! I have drained about 2 - 2.5 quarts out of the transmission and it is still high. I will drain it to the mark on the dipstick - knowing that when I cycle thru the gears, it will most likely drop way down. But - as Crvett69 has been telling me, the AT might blow the front seal if I run it over filled above the dipstick mark. He also informed me of how to cycle thru the gears just a few minutes ago by E-Mail. Funny how the Chilton doesn't inform one of that maneuver....or do they somewhere buried in the Manual ? Anyway, I am playing it safe right now. Something for the readers of this Thread to consider. I have learned quite a lot in attempting this endeavor. Thanks Precise1 ! 5:30 PM The AT Fluid drained to where it was at the top of the Dipstick mark (FULL). So I started the engine and let it warm up to where it idled back down and then I went thru all the gears for about a slow count of ten. Twice. Checked the Fluid level both times - didn't move a millimeter ! It seemed like more came out than I put back - but WTF - who am I to say? I let the engine warm up with the Coolant overflow bottle filled. Hopefully the engine will suck some coolant back in and get those air bubbles out when it cools down. No dripping anywhere - guess I sealed everything up OK. Raining and wet out - tomorrow I shall get the bumper and grill and parking lights back on and drive it - worrying all the while that the engine will explode ! DoctorBill BTW - I think you double posted (110 and 111 are the same). Edited August 15, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) I drove mine for a month with it overfilled buy a centimeter over the full mark and it was ok. The tranny does have a vent so the pressure won't build up. What it will do though, at least from my experience, is shift oddly (sometimes I had to let off the gas to make it shift) and it would shift harsh until I drove it for over an our. It's all good now though. Edited August 15, 2009 by adamzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) I want to time the spark soon. The Chilton Manual has a really, really, really small drawing on page 2-15 for the VG30E engine. Not good for old fogies who can't see small print. Chilton says to go for 15° ± 2° BTDC...... Automatic Transmission in Neutral. in the picture below.... the main pulley rotates clockwise (-->) and the timing pointer is shown as a dark black arrow. I assume the Timing Light Sensor Wire is attached to Plug Number one...... Yes? Which of the numbered marks in the picture is 0° BTDC.... Could someone in the know list marks 1 - 7 as to degrees ? Warm up the engine, race it a few times, let it idle and shine the light. Loosen and rotate the distributor ... how does one do that ? Is it fun if the spark finds it's way thru one's arms and down to the frame thru his belly or some other entity close to there ? That could make a person spill his Beer... DoctorBill PS - Adamzan...."I drove mine for a month with it overfilled buy a centimeter millimeters over the full mark and it was ok." What was that..? Edited August 15, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Sorry I meant the transmission, and I it was a centimeter over the full mark. I was just saying it didn't blow any seals out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackspawn Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Which of the numbered marks in the picture is 0° BTDC.... Could someone in the know list marks 1 - 7 as to degrees ? DoctorBill I think #4 is your 0 degree, then you have your three notches on each side. My $0.02... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Which of the numbered marks in the picture is 0° BTDC.... #1 is TDC (0°), #7 is 30° BTDC (5° each mark). Mark #4 is 15° BTDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 5:30 PMThe AT Fluid drained to where it was at the top of the Dipstick mark (FULL). So I started the engine and let it warm up to where it idled back down and then I went thru all the gears for about a slow count of ten. Twice. Checked the Fluid level both times - didn't move a millimeter ! It seemed like more came out than I put back - but WTF - who am I to say? Ok, well, just a thought... PS - Adamzan...."I drove mine for a month with it overfilled buy a centimeter millimeters over the full mark and it was ok." What was that..? He's Canadian, so that happens some times. Here is a note from Haynes. Ignition timing on 1990 and later models is controlled electronically by the ECU and can not be altered by the home mechanic. Additional information can be found in chapter 6 B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) Here is a note from Haynes."Ignition timing on 1990 and later models is controlled electronically by the ECU and can not be altered by the home mechanic. Additional information can be found in chapter 6" B Fascinating......here is a scan of page 2-15 from the Chilton Manual published by Haynes. If you can't time it, why would Haynes have printed the page above ? Does the Left Hand know what the Right Hand is doing ? ....and....if you can't time the ignition, why are there marks on the Main Crankshaft Pully and a black arrow attached to the lower TB Cover ? My Geo Metro has an ECU and when one times it with a light, one shorts out a plug to disengage the ECU while the timing is done. After reconnecting, the ECU does it's thing again totally unaware that you have diddled with the timing... Strange....lets ask the White House - and find out what the TRUTH of the matter is....! I KNOW...Let's go out to the vehicle, measure the diameter of the Crankshaft Pulley and draw it out on a paper with a compass and draw 5° angles with a protractor and see if 5° corresponds to the marks on the Pulley. I measured the distance between mark 1 and 7 and it comes out 4.5 cm....! If I was off by ½ cm measuring the Pulley Diameter then a ½ cm on the circumference is within error - close enough for Government work...! So the marks are 5° marks...as Terrano1992 said.....just checking... If it rotates clockwise and Mark #1 is TDC, then when it is on mark #4, the engine rotation would be about 15° before it reaches TDC (i.e. - BTDC). Isn't Science neat....? Everybody can do it. DoctorBill Edited August 15, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 If you can't time it, why would Haynes have printed the page above ?Does the Left Hand know what the Right Hand is doing ? ....and....if you can't time the ignition, why are there marks on the Main Crankshaft Pully and a black arrow attached to the lower TB Cover ? Oh, I know. I know the timing can be adjusted and I know that the ECU further tweaks it according to what it's sensors indicate. Just quoting the manual... BTW, the picture you have in your signature by Frank Frazetta is cover art for the Death Dealer series IIRC. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) Oh, I know. I know the timing can be adjusted and I know that the ECU further tweaks it according to what it's sensors indicate.Just quoting the manual... BTW, the picture you have in your signature by Frank Frazetta is cover art for the Death Dealer series IIRC. B I have Books 1 thru 4 of Frank Frazetta's art. My God, could he draw the human figure - and animals, too ! For those who do not know of him.....he grew up in Brooklyn, NY. Deceased. Frank Frazetta - Wikipedia The UNOFFICIAL Frank Frazetta web site click on "Tour 2" Tour 2 - with many many pages of his art He illustrated many a book cover (Conan, Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, Buck Rogers, etc. Comic Books and Magazine Cover Art - when he was young. His wife (who was often his model) became his business manager, but died recently... His web site is down - hopefully not forever...... There has been a DVD made about him Frazetta: Painting with Fire (2003) a DVD about his work. Conan One of his Illustrations for the Robert E Howard series of which Arnold Schwarzenegger starred in. My favorite. Frazetta Cover Art - Click on the underlined book titles (left side) to see the cover art (right side). Yes...one of my favorite artists and illustrators. Awesome ! DoctorBill PS - can't do much right now - it has been raining a lot and we have visitors....no...not the "Thought Police". I don't know if anyone has reported me to the White House for criticizing our beloved politicians - yet.... Edited August 16, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrano1992 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Oh, I know. I know the timing can be adjusted and I know that the ECU further tweaks it according to what it's sensors indicate.Just quoting the manual... Chilton says @!*%... You can change base ignition angle by rotating distributor. Look at FSM-1994, pages EF&EC-24..28. But you can't change angle correction value, applied by ECU depending on engine operating mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Yes Sir, that's what I said. You just say it purtier... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 Timing the Spark Here are two photos of the Distributor. On the right side (facing the engine block) is the clamping bolt - Loosen this bolt. A photo of the left side of the distributor shows no other bolt - so the right side bolt must be the only one. I will put my old SEARS Timing Light Sensor Wire on the Lead from Plug No. 1 and shine the Flasher down at the Main Crankshaft Pulley - trying not to let the Fan Blades hit it. Run the engine until it is warmed up, race the engine a few times, let it idle down then...slowly rotate the Distributor and when the Timing Arrow lines up on the 4th mark from the left, I tighten down the Distributor. Done - right ?! DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 Can someone who has used it, please show me where the TOP COOLANT AIR BLEED BOLT is? Below are views of my engine with side Coordinates to point out the location (example: G-16 center photo - "4x4") I cannot find it - so I need this "Method for Dummmies"... CENTER Where is the "TOP COOLANT AIR BLEED BOLT" located ? I need to bleed a lot of air out of my Coolant ! LEFT SIDE RIGHT SIDE DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I believe it is D-21 in your last picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorBill Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) Adamzan, I offer you my most profound and gratitudinous thank you's for directing me to this Coolant Air Bleed Port. Ever since I got old (some say I was ALWAYS this way...), I have trouble seeing close up. Someone described it, previously, but I couldn't find it. Here is a close-up photo of said Air Bleed Port - as proof, read the label ! The label on mine was covered with a lot of dust and was hidden from my failing eyesight. My old Dad used to complain that I had to have my nose rubbed in something before I could see it... It is "Hose City" under that Hood.... BTW - what is the vertical thingie with the Red Question Mark on it in the lower right quadrant of the photo ? Now I'll have to study exactly how I bleed air from this system - since the Radiator Cap is lower than that air bleed port.... (?). Do you do it when the engine is cold (just started) and the water pump forces the air out ? Thanks again Adamzan ! DoctorBill Edited August 16, 2009 by DoctorBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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