ankana Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I have the problem you were discussing on the Nissan forum a while back. My Pathy will start and run fine until it warms up then it sputters and dies as soon as it gets up to operating temp. One potential solution someone suggested was the thermostat? I replaced mine not too long ago, so I'm having a hard time believing that is the solution. It kinda makes sense, but there were those comments saying that there was no heat override circuit. I have done the diagnostic and got 55 for a return. I disconnected the connectors associated with the coolant system, no effect. I tried dissconnecting most of the connections on top/front of the engine as well. They registered the appropriate error code when I did. Still no effect. I contacted my local dealer who responded as I expected " Bring it down and we'll charge you $90" even though they could tell me exactly what the problem is over the phone. Gotta make a buck I suppose. The factory manual I have has a great troubleshooting section, but none of their suggestions panned out. Anyway, I'm baffled. If anyone has any ideas as to what is causing this problem, please advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 The engine runs in open-loop mode until it warms up(relying on pre-set values to calculate fuel/air ratios), then switches to closed-loop mode relying on the MAF, TPS, air temp, coolant temp and O2 sensors to calculate fuel/air ratios, spark timing and injector timing. Perhaps a combination of things are making it run that way when it comes out of open-loop mode. You can run a real-time ECU test to see if the TPS is working OK and if the O2 sensor is giving the proper feedback when it's running. Check your FSM for the procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 when/how did this start? milage and year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govols74n Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Might be a silly question, but did you try wiggling the wire connector on top of the air filter box( where the large hose connects)? i have a 94 that did the same thing....that worked for me. I also took the MAF off (the piece that the wire connects to) with a screwdriver and cleaned the tiny wire fillements with alcohol and Q-tips very gently....try the search feature if you dont understand, or pm me....that happens alot with our pathys evidently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookie Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Since it happens when the engine gets to temp, I'm leaning towards the o2 sensor too. Does the engine completely die? But if you turn of key off and then start imediately, the engine fires back up? Any mis firing at highway speeds or under load like going up hills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Oooooooh, how could I forget this happening to me also? Same thing, but it was the power transistor for the coil. Apparently it took a little while to heat up and then it would completely kill spark to the engine until it cooled off. Had me stumped for a while until I had it happen at home and started checking stuff over with a voltmeter and timing light. Silly question ankana, but when this happens to you, do you know if you have spark still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Thanks for the information. 88pathoffroad-The open/closed loop thing makes alot of sense given what is occurring. I have successfully been thru the ECU self-diagnostic in mode three. As I get the five blinks on both red and green, which should mean that all systems check out in that mode. I am not sure if I'm doing it correctly in mode five. because I'm not getting any feedback while in real-time. My guess is that I will get my answer if I can figure out how to work this mode. I'm going to play with that again this morning. I do have spark still. One more clue I discovered yesterday. I put a timing light on it. The timing was way off. I attempted to adjust if into spec and was unable to. The distrubuter bumps up against the valve cover before I can get to 15 degrees. I was suspecting a slipped timing belt, but that doesn't explain why it will run fine till it warms up. I understand there is a timing/cranck angle sensor in the distributor. Right now that's the way I'm leaning. mzextreme- My 93 Pathfinder has 240K miles on it, but up to now, I've had very little problem with it. This started as a really sluggish engine that felt like it was not breathing too well. I was suspecting a plugged catalytic converter when it suddenly stopped idling properly. govols74n- I have indeed been playing with that connector. There seems to be alot of banter about that troublesome bugger on this forum. Mookie- Eventually it dies because the RPMs get so low. If I rev up the engine I can keep it running -badly- Once the engine gets hot, it will no longer start though. I had noticed that when I was going downhill, some subdued backfiring in the exhaust. And yes, the engine has been really sluggish for quite some time. Thanks to all for your comments, You have given me some good insight. I don't do well when I can't figure problems out and this one had me pretty frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 is the thermostat in the correct way? could still be blocked cat. are you getting fuel to the rail when hot? bicycle style valve should be located somewhere there... if you press it and fuel shoots out then you have pressure and for now that's all we need. the timing makes me wander what the heck it is though.. when was the t-belt done last? might have jumped a tooth or two.. also the Crank positioning sensor would be worth looking at. check all you groundings.. especially the main ones by the battery. maf-clean and jiggle wires.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vengeful Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 maf-clean and jiggle wires.. Gently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 You checked the timing and its off... How did it do that?? When was the timing belt changed? If it wasnt changed it is possible that the teeth on the belt are degrading and managed to slip a bit.. Mine ate 18" of teeth when it blew out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 I replaced the timing belt today, just because I couldn't expalin th timing being off any other way. When I got the fron end apart, it all looked as it should. So that is not the problem. I ran thru the diagnostics and all checked out in mode III as before code 55. mode 5 returned a flashing green light when I reved the engine above about 2000 rpm and there was no error code in my shop manual for that. I checked the continuity between the crank angle sensor connector and the ECU and made sure I was getting power to the sucker. It all checked out O.K. and now I'm stuck again. Someone said it could still be my cat converter, but I don't see how it would start and run fine util it warms up if that were the case. I think the dealer is going to get my money after all.Last time I took a vehicle to a mechanic I got ripped off. It just kills me to give up on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govols74n Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Good Luck, thanks to the awesome help on this site I've saved tons. I hate going to the STEALER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 (edited) UPDATE................. CAUTION...NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART... COULD BE DISTURBING TO SOME. I know it shook me up whin I first saw it. Took the problem to th dealer. As usual it turned out to be something I should have figured out but didn't. So instead it was a $400 lesson that I will not soon forget. Oh. and that was not to fis the problem. In fact they wanted $3000 plus to put in a USED motor. Oh my god! What is worse is that the thing that caused the problem was $1 part. The woodruff key that holds the timing gear in place had turned to dust, badly damaging the groove in the crank and had allowed the gear to turn about 15 degrees on the shaft. Liucky for me the thing stopped at that or I'd be looking at a bigger problem. The mechanic didn't want to even mess with it and charged me $90 for a diagnosis fee and $290 to tear down the front end of the motor. Pretty good money cause I can do it in less than an hour. Oh well, I allways feel a little dirty after a trip to factory service. My soulution is going to be to cut a full keyway for both the timing gear and the hamonic balancer. I think it's going to work as soon as I can mount my x/y table to the engine block. I'll post pictures if anyone is interested. By the way, the woodruff key for the Harmonic Balancer was almost as bad as the timing gear. I get the feeling that others will be seeing this problem as well. Mine has over 200K mi. on it, but I'd bet if you have alot of miles on yours, you should replace those woodruff keys so It won't happen to you. Or not. Edited August 18, 2006 by ankana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 (edited) previous picture was the set up for cutting new keyway. this one shows the damage. OUCH!!!!! Edited August 18, 2006 by ankana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Holy Chit!!!! Your going to make tear my font end apart again on both.... Glad it was found prior to complete Failure.... Please keep us updated on your fix... Worste Case I know there are a couple of cranks floating around with some members on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 The woodruff key that holds the timing gear in place had turned to dust, badly damaging the groove in the crank and had allowed the gear to turn about 15 degrees on the shaft. Yeah, the same happened to Red last summer, but it cost him his engine. I think he is still installing the replacement... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) Think I'm figuring this picture thing out. Are these too big for everyone? I'll let you know if the operation is a success. Only thing I'm worried about is taking too much meat out of that crank and weakening the end so much I cause more problems. I suppose all I can do is try it. Obviously I think it will work out okay, or I would be buying another engine instead. Edited August 18, 2006 by ankana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 That is a failure mode I have never seen before. Thank you for sharing your pain and solutions! My first thought was to weld up the damage and regrind to stock configuration to maintain as much integrity in the snout as possible. But with more thinking, the loading on the end of the crank where you are looking to add the full keyway is not that substantial and should not be a problem. Just be sure to radius all sharp corners to avoid stress risers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) I am going to attempt to do this using a die grinder mounted to an articulating x-y table with the crank still in the vehicle. Thus the strange looking angle mounted to the block in the pictures. I believe that the corners will have a small radius because the medium that I'll be using to make the slot. I'll get another picture when I get it all set up hopefully later today. Thanks for your suggestions. I wish this thing had a spell check! I constantly have to re-edit these things right after I post them. Especially when I try to use big words. Edited August 18, 2006 by ankana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 (edited) Made the first couple of cuts today and it looks to be a complete sucsess! I am going to have a freind of mine who is a trade school welding instructor repair the places where there is material missing before I go any further. Edited August 20, 2006 by ankana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 (edited) Top veiw of first two two cuts that that I made. I think this is actually going to work! :bow: Edited August 20, 2006 by ankana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 (edited) Action, drama, suspense... I think I need a beer, maybe two... Edited August 20, 2006 by ankana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Luker Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Holy s$hit man. Last time I saw this problem a whole new motor was dropped in the engine bay as a solution. You make this happen i think a few of us here will put our asses in gear and send you some good Canadian beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankana Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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