coil springs

[adahy22]

ok since i don t think i can do this job myself cause i don t know nothing at all about suspension and shocks.

i read a lot about the coil springs(how-to)but got really confused with what kind of springs needed.

so if i get the JC springs for the back ,would i need new shocks too?

ok now that my rear end is higher what about the front?

and anyone can guide me for the UCA what to get ,what brand and cheap cause i also have to have it install.

thanks ..

i also have rancho shocks in the front just don t know how big they are

Edited February 21, 2007 by adahy22

[k9sar]

no. if you do a search through the forums and find the years etc for the JGC coils, you will find that they are 17" long like the pathy springs. they are just beefier and do not compress under the weight of the vehicle as much.

 

Then I just cranked up my t-bars to level it out.

Edited February 21, 2007 by k9sar

[govols74n]

Heres a pic of what the torsion bar looks like to get you started. http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/novemb...r_installed.jpg

there are 2 -one on each side of the truck, running to the lower control arms

as for the rear, here is the link to a writeup 88pathoffroad did...

http://www.damagedreality.com/fordcoil.html

 

Heres something that trailchaiser typed up. .for the torsion lift...if you can turn a ratchet or breaker bar than you can do this.........You just jack up the front of the truck, loosen the main adjuster bolt (19mm) till it's loose, then unbolt the three bolts(two 14mm one 17or19mm) that are holding the anchor to the lower control arm, mark where the splines are before you move the anchor, now slide that anchor towards the rear of the truck till it comes off the splines, then rotate it a couple of splines, then slide the anchor back toward the front of the truck, then bolt it back up and readjust the bolts at the rear of the t-bars till you get the height you're looking for.

 

Use lots of penetrating oil on the adjuster nuts before you do the job. Also you might want to be careful if you're planning to use a rachet with a backup wrench on the nut. The two thin pieces of metal that connect the bolt to the t-bar are known to bend when you start applying the ole torque. It sucks using an open ended wrench on that bolt for 10 minutes, but I've got one out in the garage now that's a prime example of what happens when you get in a hurry. judge.gif Grease the bottom of the heads and the top of the half moon before bolting'em back up to keep things slippery.

Edited February 22, 2007 by govols74n

[jj big shoe]

Heres something that trailchiser typed up. .for the torsion lift...if you can turn a ratchet or breaker bar than you can do this.........You just jack up the front of the truck, loosen the main adjuster bolt (19mm) till it's loose, then unbolt the three bolts(two 14mm one 17or19mm) that are holding the anchor to the lower control arm, mark where the splines are before you move the anchor, now slide that anchor towards the rear of the truck till it comes off the splines, then rotate it a couple of splines, then slide the anchor back toward the front of the truck, then bolt it back up and readjust the bolts at the rear of the t-bars till you get the height you're looking for.

Isn't that the re-indexing how-to? You might be able to get the desired ride height by just turning the adjusters mentioned in the last sentence (I did with my stock '87 t-bars). I'd crank on those first. They will take a few miles to settle in once you adjust them and if they sag down and won't hold the height, then you'll need to re-index them.

I've got a set of the Superlift A-arms, which IIRC are what the rebadged Rough Country's are. I like 'em and haven't heared a bad word about them from anybody yet.

Search and poke around this site, there's plenty threads with the info you're looking for.

[adahy22]

sounds easy when you describe it but i m sure if i don t know what i m doing it will blow up in my face.

if i go get the coil springs and bring them a UCA would they be able to do it at a shop or look at me like i m stupid

i really don t want to jack up my torsion bars because of problems with doing that

can i get a after market torsion bars

and what is the upper control arms located?

a pic would be great

ok can you install the coil springs from a JGC in the front too!?

i feel really retarded bec i see the description how to do it and what to get but i still confused

sorry i don t have any experience with pathfinder and i don t think i will install it myself so i need to know what i need to get and what would work best?

so far i got the rear coil springs from 87-94 jeep grand cherokee

but the trick is to make it fit,hahaha

would i also have to change my shocks with this.

about the front i m still confused on what to do since i don t want to jack my torsion bars up

so my next guess would be to get a upper controls arms and what else.......???

new shocks too!! -thnkboutit- so

[Mr. Pickles]

sounds easy when you describe it but i m sure if i don t know what i m doing it will blow up in my face.

if i go get the coil springs and bring them a UCA would they be able to do it at a shop or look at me like i m stupid

i really don t want to jack up my torsion bars because of problems with doing that

can i get a after market torsion bars

and what is the upper control arms located?

a pic would be great

ok can you install the coil springs from a JGC in the front too!?

i feel really retarded bec i see the description how to do it and what to get but i still confused

sorry i don t have any experience with pathfinder and i don t think i will install it myself so i need to know what i need to get and what would work best?

so far i got the rear coil springs from 87-94 jeep grand cherokee

but the trick is to make it fit,hahaha

would i also have to change my shocks with this.

about the front i m still confused on what to do since i don t want to jack my torsion bars up

so my next guess would be to get a upper controls arms and what else.......???

new shocks too!! -thnkboutit- so

You're over thinking this. Best bet would be to go back and read over the previous threads mentioned, and pick yourself up a Chilton's or Haynes repair manual. Those have explanations of parts, as well as some decent overall suspension system pics showing how things work together.

 

What you need is FRONT coils from a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8, not the rear coils. But, you'll be installing those coils in place of your REAR suspension coils. You don't have to get new shocks, but getting new longer ones will help your suspension flex all the way, which is of course why you're doing the lift in the first place (other than just for looks).

 

The front does not use coil springs, the torsion bars are the "springs." Instead of a spring stretching and twisting up and down, the torsion bars use torsion, or twist, to extend and compress with the suspension. There is no way to lift the front without cranking up the torsion bars, there's just no way around it other than lots of fab work. Don't be afraid of cranking them up, re=indexing them, or getting stiffer aftermarket ones. Lots of us here have done it. The upper control arms are the A shaped arms behind your tires and around your front shocks. They connect from your upper ball joint behind your front tires, and up to 2 bolts at the frame (this is where shims are put on the bolts between the UCA and frame in order to correct the front alignment). The lower control arms are what the bottom of the shock and the front of your torsion bars all mount too, as well as to the frame and the lower ball joint behind your tire. The new UCA's don't give you lift, but they do correct the angles of suspension components (ball joints mainly) to ALLOW you to lift the front via the torsion bars. Ok then, off you go to read and read, don't be afraid to ask more questions though.

[Pavelow Leaks]

you try to confuse

[adahy22]

thanks mr pickles very good description of suspension.

i get it ,yes and i did mean the rear springs of JGC

ok but if i crank my torsion bars apparently cause more problems then wanted.

so get stronger after market ones and then crank them up .

i still don t get the uca which is the a shape thing.

what you get from changing the factory ones to aftermarket ones???

[Pavelow Leaks]

aftermarket uca's correct the camber after cranking the torsion bars. Aftermarket torsion bars are available, but not completely necessary.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Pavelow Leaks

[adahy22]

i found some coil springs at junkyard for 35$ A PIECE but i don t know if it s the right one ,came from a 1996 jeep grand cherokee 4.0 so i guess it s right

i will post some pics and see if someone can tell me

thanks

[sammyb33]

THE RUNDOWN....

 

First things first. The torsion bars will not affect your truck, it will only cause more wear on ball joints, if you do not opt for the after market UCAs, which put your balljoints back into alignment so they do not wear out as fast.

 

Yes cranking your torsion bars will put the CV axles at a steeper angle than stock, but 2.5 to 3 inches will not destroy them as soon as you drive on them, nearly everyone that has posted has a 3 inch suspension lift, so we are all doing the exact same thing you are trying to achieve.

 

You do not need to replace your rear shocks if you do not want to at this point in time. But if you choose to, you must get longer shocks to compensate for the 3 inch lift.

 

The there are two front control arms on a Pathfinder Independent Front Suspension. The upper, and the Lower. These literally are in the shape of a capital A. They both attach at a central point (this is also the point at which your axle runs to, and the place your tire gets bolted on). Once you rasie the front of the pathfinder with a torsion bar crank, the lower control arms will "drop" to a steeper angle as well as the axle giving you the 3 inches of ground clearance desired. The aftermarket UCA is actually a bit longer, and angled to compensate for the 3 inch lift, putting less strain on your upper balljoints. So in a sense UCAs are preferred for lift and are included in mostly every kit you will find, but they are not totally needed, there are a few people on the board just running a torsion bar crank without UCAs.

 

 

The only thing i would suggest in the future is to possibly go look at your truck when we try and describe things to you that way you might not be so confused, and then if you have any knowledge of basic hand tools, you should be able to complete the install yourself.

[k9sar]

i found some coil springs at junkyard for 35$ A PIECE but i don t know if it s the right one ,came from a 1996 jeep grand cherokee 4.0 so i guess it s right

i will post some pics and see if someone can tell me

thanks

doesn't sound right.

 

you're looking for a grand cherokee v-8 or an up-country suspension upgrade. If there is a paper tag on the springs and it's green or reads FJ, NO GOOD

 

Best way is to take a caliper (measurement, not brake) with you. The coils you want are 17 inches long (fairly standard for the JGC's), a 4" coil diameter (with a pigtail at the top (again, fairly standard) and anything better than a .50" wire diameter. The thicker the better.

 

here... I'll make it easy. I posted this at rear spring option thread

 

Jeep offers two basic suspension options on the Grand Cherokee ZJ

models, a standard base suspension and an optional UpCountry

suspension designed to improve performance in off-road driving.

 

Chrysler makes a variety of springs for the GC. There are two main

types, base and HD (heavy duty), and in each type category there are 5-10

different springs with different GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)

capabilities. The springs are denoted by a two digit code as well as

a part number.

 

Higher GVWR springs from either the base or HD spring tables in the

factory parts catalog are stiffer and also raise the vehicle

slightly. The UpCountry (off-road) suspension option for the GC

includes higher GVWR springs.

 

In addition to whether the ZJ is equipped with standard or UpCountry

(option code AWE) suspension as well as what other weight affecting

options came from the factory different springs are selected. For

example if the jeep has the trailer hitch or skid plate/tow hook package,

there would be stiffer springs in the rear to compensate for the weight

of these items.

 

The thicker diameter wire indicates an increase in rate. The rate of

a spring is proportional to the 4th power of the diameter, so even

small differences in diameter make a substantial difference in rate.

The UpCountry V8 "GN" code front springs (.600) are 32% stiffer

than the stock "FN" code V8 springs (.560)

 

Though I do not have the full specs for the springs available, I have

determined through visiting multiple salvage yards that the most

common JGC spring (and normal cherokee for that matter) out there

are the FJ (.520) springs which, I believe, may give a 4-door pathy

with a wheel carrier about 1/2" of lift since the stock springs are only

.500 but differ in coil count etc.

 

I was amazed at the quality of the tags remaining on the springs.

The following part numbers, codes and wire diameters are known:

(so far)

part num code dia tag color

52001117 FH - .500 (grey)

52088102 FJ - .520 (green)

52088103 FK - .530 (yellowish. old part number 52001119)

52088181 FL - .540

52088361 FM - .550 (blue)

52088362 FN - .560 (yellow) [definately yellow, just got a pair]

52088104 GK

52088105 GL

52088363 GN - .600

52089141 GP

52089171 DL

 

I used the .560 springs in my 4-door and got a nice 2" or so lift from it. If you dig around on the web, you can also find a list of how to read teh VIN from a jeep and be able to determine the suspension package from the code. That's how I narrowed down which vehicle to look at. Even though you might find an inline-6 jeep, it may have an upgrade that provided the heavy springs.

 

Here's another link for a thread for my lift

 

poor man's lift

 

pics are on the cardomain page from the first post.

Edited February 22, 2007 by k9sar

[govols74n]

Get the parts and see if you can get someone mechanically inclined to help....You don't need NEW torsion bars, just need to adjust the ones you have....you may be better off asking your local shops if they will help.

[adahy22]

here are some pics of the springs from the jeep 2 differents sets but the same

ok now if i get those install i will need to change my shocks

now for the front ,change the uca (will that change the ball joints too or need to indivisual set)

now because it doesn t make sense how cranking up ur torsions bars give you lift since they parralel to the frame and not perpendicular like shocks

what you anyone suggest to do in the front ?

because if i raise the back with the springs i need to do some in the front so i don t look goofy

one mechanic told me you have to change the whole front end because they really bad ???

what should i change before i go offroad like uca ,tie rod ....anything else

thanks

for the timing belt i was change when they put in the motor at 110k now 164k

so i don t think it s neccesary right??

so i got a 1990 pathy with 60k miles ,sweeeeeeeeeeet

will get the tranny bypass soon (shop charge 50$ can i do it myself }

i don t want to use the original totally bypass it it s different then just hook it up .

wish some of u pros :bow: was close to me arhhhhhhhhhh

thanks kevin

[k9sar]

I'm flying through Atlanta on Saturday. I can check my layover time if you want to try to do this in the airport parking lot

 

those look to be the right length and number of coils. I have no way of determining wire diameter from the pic. You will need to deal with the the pigtails (heat/bend or cut thm off) or they won't fit. As far as the front, you should lift the front to level it out. cranking/reindexing the t-bars is an acceptable way to do this. I'm sure that if you want to spend the money, you could go with new UCA's and ball joints etc.

Edited February 23, 2007 by k9sar

[sammyb33]

ok now if i get those install i will need to change my shocks

now for the front ,change the uca (will that change the ball joints too or need to indivisual set)

now because it doesn t make sense how cranking up ur torsions bars give you lift since they parralel to the frame and not perpendicular like shocks

 

 

seriously dude. read the posts. i answered your shock question.

 

 

also, torsion bars are twisted to gain its spring capabilities. so cranking them up is how you actually gain the lift. it is essentially twisting them to put more torque on the bar.

 

CRANK YOUR TBARS that is the only way to gain an acutal suspension lift. if you keep saying you dont wanna crank them do a body lift

[govols74n]

OK, heres the deal...you have upper and lower control arms or A-arms as some call them. The torsion bars go into the lowers....follow me now, at the rear of the torsion bars there is a point where you will see a bracket type deal with a real long bolt going into it....the bolt has 2 nuts on the top. (one locks in the other to keep from loosening) when this bolt is tightened, the torsion bar gets more pressure, forcing the lower control arms downward....this in turn raises the vehicle. ( the top nut has to be loosened first) The torsion bar IS your spring. That is what keeps your pathy from laying on the ground as we speak. This is the only way to lift your pathy unless to strip it and put a solid axle in it, or do a body lift....but the torsion lift is not complicated if you follow the instructions these guys gave you.....I didn't know how either, until I found this forum a year or so ago.....hopefully this will help you understand better....I'm sure someone else will add to it if I forgot something....

Edited February 23, 2007 by govols74n

[88pathoffroad]

Damn man, this reminds me of ChromoTech's posts. He just about needed everything spelled out three times.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

Simple answers:

 

You do not need new shocks when replacing rear springs.

 

You do not need new torsion bars when replacing UCA's.

 

You do not need new front shocks when cranking up the t-bars.

 

The stock t-bars can be re-indexed for a little more lift before you need new t-bars. Reindexing is where you remove the front or rear anchor from the t-bar and put it back on two or three splines off so that you can crank it up more. There are quite a few articles on how to do this on the net already.

 

The JGC coil springs should be MEASURED BEFORE PURCHASE. You do not want coils that won't give you any lift. The coils need to be at least .54" wire diameter. Stock Nissan coils are .50" diameter. I have the .58" diameter coils and they give 3" of lift with no rear tire carrier.

 

New UCA's do not come with balljoints, they are separate.

 

Anything else?

[89_trailboss]

holy crap! dude just bring it to a shop already!

 

I have NEVER gotten a full 3" out of JGC coils. ive tried two different sets in my truck(.52 and .58) and a third set(.58) on a friends path and have never gotten over 1.5". honestly I think my coil spacer setup was best setup ive tried yet. ride stayed the same and it was impossable to drop a coil. even with 14" shocks.

[adahy22]

ok ok sorry guys for just trying to understand ,jeezzzz

i m not a expert like most of you

so it s better to get all info before even doing something

any ways some good news.

i had those factory front speakers 5-1'4 which sucks...

i bought a set of alpine 6' speakers for 20$ at a junk yard and install them all by myself

now it sounds sweet just need a cd player

anyone have one for sale???

so what are your uca??javascript:emoticon('')

smilie

ok ok just kidding i finally understand the front suspensions system except could any one post a pic of the ball joints so i can ckeck if they r bad

or better yet take a picture of a ordinary front suspension and get some arrows to every thing .

i think i see everything but it would be nice

thanks for yelling at me to understand

btw 88pathy your pathy looks frickin' awesome

sweet ride ....

Edited February 23, 2007 by adahy22

[govols74n]

To check ball joints....lift front tire, grab the top of tire with one hand, the bottom of the tire with the other....try to wiggle the tire back and forth this way (top to bottom) if it wiggles, one is bad sly